But she left the field

[chapmaja]

JV game yesterday. R1 on 3rd, B3 hits a screaming line drive that hits R1 (who is in foul territory) just about belt high. R1 immediately goes down crying in pain. I immediately call foul ball and summon the head coach (1st base box) over. I also call for the trainer to come out.

After a couple minutes she sits up and then is able to jog over to the dugout. At this point, now that I have the injured player taken care of, I ask the HC is he is going to sub for #15 (R1). He goes, I thought she was called out, she was hit with a batted ball. I said, it was a foul ball because she was in foul territory when it hit her (also, the ball had already passed F5 who was playing in expecting a bunt).

He then walks over the dugout where #15 is getting a drink and asks if she can continue. She says yes, and comes back out. As I am getting ready to go back behind the plate I hear the opposing coach call time. She comes out and wants to argue that #15 should be out for abandoning the base. I don't recall the exact response, but it was along the lines of, she was an obviously injured player, and I was giving her time to recover, which included going over to get a drink. (The defensive coach could not have heard the offensive coach say he thought she was out based on the volume of the conversation and where it happened).

I felt that giving an obviously injured player time to recover does not say she can't go get a drink from the dugout. Opinions?

The closest thing in the rulebook I can find is the blood rule. It does not specify that a player who is bleeding must get treatment on the field, only that they must get it treated and cleaned within a reasonable amount of time.

[UmpireErnie]

Chap, why would this player be out? The ball was dead, and she went into the team area to be attended to. Even if HC thought runner was out she was not.

This should not be considered "abandoning the base by entering DBT" as in NFHS 8-6-14.

Side note: I would not get too involved with summoning particular team personnel to the field. Obviously if the team is not aware that a player needs to be looked at then let a coach know but then back off and let them handle it. Let the coaches call out whoever else they want/need.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Side note: I would not get too involved with summoning particular team personnel to the field. Obviously if the team is not aware that a player needs to be looked at then let a coach know but then back off and let them handle it. Let the coaches call out whoever else they want/need.

When I have a situation that appears to be a potential serious injury, I am going to summon any individuals I feel will get the player the best treatment possible. I personally thought the ball hit her in the abdomen, not at the belt line, so I fear the worst (I had a friend nearly die from a line drive to the stomach in baseball).

Had this hit off an ankle or leg, I would not have acted so urgently (even through I had a pitcher suffer a broken kneecap earlier this year with a line drive. When it involves the head, chest or mid-section, I am getting everyone who potentially could be involved in treating this person. In this case, the team in question was a visiting team at a tourney, and was not the home team and also did not have a trainer with them. The host team had a trainer on site, who was actually on his way after he saw the play.

[EsqUmp]

Put the runner back out there.

Let the teams control the teams. Were they not watching? Did they not see what happened? Don't add to it.

[MD Longhorn]

You are most definitely taking too much "charge" here. You are the umpire - the arbiter of the rules. Do that. You do not need to be involved (directly or indirectly) in this player's care - there are an enormous number of people who will do that. Stay out of that.

You're the guy who needs to stop play (if necessary) and keep his head on a swivel. 99% of the people are focused on this player - you stay focused on everything else.

The only ACTIVE thing you might have to do here is help keep other people (like players) away so others can do what they need to do.

Regarding your "out for abandoning" question - opposing coach is an idiot. There's no such thing as abandonment during a dead ball.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

When I have a situation that appears to be a potential serious injury, I am going to summon any individuals I feel will get the player the best treatment possible. I personally thought the ball hit her in the abdomen, not at the belt line, so I fear the worst (I had a friend nearly die from a line drive to the stomach in baseball).

Had this hit off an ankle or leg, I would not have acted so urgently (even through I had a pitcher suffer a broken kneecap earlier this year with a line drive. When it involves the head, chest or mid-section, I am getting everyone who potentially could be involved in treating this person. In this case, the team in question was a visiting team at a tourney, and was not the home team and also did not have a trainer with them. The host team had a trainer on site, who was actually on his way after he saw the play.

Yes, I am going to dog pile on this; you continue to ask for advice, but refuse to listen when you get answers that conflict with your predetermined answers.

You are not a triage professional. Your opinion of the significance of that or any other perceived injury means NOTHING. You have ZERO place in determining what that player needs or doesn't need. By making any decision beyond stopping play, you have assumed and accepted personal liability for your decision. If the trainer does the wrong thing, it is now legally your fault for calling for that trainer.

I have stopped responding to your posts, but this one is too significant to ignore in case any other readers are thinking you may be correct. You are completely wrong.

[Manny A]

Abandonment? Coach doesn't know what the hell she is talking about. Should we call one of her batter's out if she goes into the dugout after requesting Time to swap out bats or helmets? Where do these people come up with their "expertise" anyway?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes, I am going to dog pile on this; you continue to ask for advice, but refuse to listen when you get answers that conflict with your predetermined answers.

You are not a triage professional. Your opinion of the significance of that or any other perceived injury means NOTHING. You have ZERO place in determining what that player needs or doesn't need. By making any decision beyond stopping play, you have assumed and accepted personal liability for your decision. If the trainer does the wrong thing, it is now legally your fault for calling for that trainer.

I have stopped responding to your posts, but this one is too significant to ignore in case any other readers are thinking you may be correct. You are completely wrong.

Please tell me at what point did I determine that the player needed assistance. I summoned the coach and the trainer to the field to DETERMINE if the player in deed needed medical assistance. I did not say she did. I did not go treat the player. I simply summoned the players coach and the athletic trainer (who was the person on scene most qualified to determine if she needed medical assistance to the field).

If she didn't need assistance great, I'm glad. If the injury had been severe and potential life threatening, even a few seconds can make a difference. I would much rather error on the side of asking the trainer to come to the field, rather than having a player seriously injured or killed on my field. Maybe you can live with a player being seriously injured or killed on your field, I however am not the same way.

Let me end my portion of this discussion by asking you this. If you were umpiring and you witnessed the pitcher take a line drive off the face, but you knew the coach wasn't paying attention, what you would do? (I have seen it happen, the coach was working with another athlete and had her back turned to the field, when the pitcher was hit with a batted ball in the face, thankfully not hard).

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Please tell me at what point did I determine that the player needed assistance.

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I immediately call foul ball and summon the head coach (1st base box) over. I also call for the trainer to come out.

Just. Call. Foul. Ball. Stop summoning people.

[CecilOne]

In spite of my respect for most of you, I will still stop play and get someone's attention if I see a potentially serious injury or risk.
I think ignoring it is neglect.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In spite of my respect for most of you, I will still stop play and get someone's attention if I see a potentially serious injury or risk.
I think ignoring it is neglect.

In the case of the OP, everyone else already saw it. Being the only person on the field not focused on the injury is not neglect. Might be different if someone was hurt on the field, and further play could injure them more, or if you were the only one that saw it.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

In spite of my respect for most of you, I will still stop play and get someone's attention if I see a potentially serious injury or risk.
I think ignoring it is neglect.

Who is that person from the offense standing in the area in foul territory near the base? Yes, it is the person responsible for that runner.


Nope, the umpire's job is to make the call. It is a dead ball. If the player's team isn't watching the game, what are you umpiring, practice? Unless you are qualified and licensed to administer medical aid, the most you may want to do is "suggest" that someone from the team may want to check on their player.

The ambulance chasers, insurance companies and cowardly judges have made it a risky proposition in attempting to help our fellow human being and when it comes down to it, my family comes first.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Who is that person from the offense standing in the area in foul territory near the base? Yes, it is the person responsible for that runner.


Nope, the umpire's job is to make the call. It is a dead ball. If the player's team isn't watching the game, what are you umpiring, practice? Unless you are qualified and licensed to administer medical aid, the most you may want to do is "suggest" that someone from the team may want to check on their player.

The ambulance chasers, insurance companies and cowardly judges have made it a risky proposition in attempting to help our fellow human being and when it comes down to it, my family comes first.

Yup,
" "suggest" that someone from the team may want to check on their player."
equals
"stop play and get someone's attention "