Collision or no collision?

[big poppa 7]

Bases are full, ball hit slowly in front of F1, F1 fields throws to F2 at the plate. With foot on plate F2 is knocked down just as the ball reaches glove. What is the call?

[teebob21]

With any bang-bang judgment play, I would have to be there and see it. Might be interference, might be obstruction, might be nothing. There are about a hundred factors that need to be considered in this seemingly simple case play.

Who knocked down F3? If it was a runner, was it intentional or accidental? Did she attempt to avoid the fielder? Has she already scored? How many outs are there? Was it a slow roller or a lazy pop fly that drops in front of F1? What side of the plate is F3 standing on? Why is the first baseman covering home? What level of play/ruleset? Was the throw offline, pulling F3 into the path of a runner? Did F3 obstruct the runner before F3 was in possession of the ball? Etc.

[big poppa 7]

F2 not F3

[big poppa 7]

F2 had right foot on plate and left foot in front of plate. U12 Rec ball. Throw was not offline. Intentional or not is debatable! Internal House rule states that runner must try to avoid collision when approaching base either by sliding or touching opposite side of bag in comparison to fielder. Obstruction was made after possession but before complete control.

[Cliffdweller]

Safe!

[bsnalex]

Originally Posted by big poppa 7

F2 had right foot on plate and left foot in front of plate. U12 Rec ball. Throw was not offline. Intentional or not is debatable! Internal House rule states that runner must try to avoid collision when approaching base either by sliding or touching opposite side of bag in comparison to fielder. Obstruction was made after possession but before complete control.

I could be a pedant here, or might see things differently, but if F2 is making a catch at home with her body (as you describe) sounding like it's in a good spot, can obstruction be made after possession?

[big poppa 7]

Okay I guess my question should be when is it illegal for a runner to collide with a fielder making a play on a ball?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by bsnalex

I could be a pedant here, or might see things differently, but if F2 is making a catch at home with her body (as you describe) sounding like it's in a good spot, can obstruction be made after possession?

No, that is not possible.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by big poppa 7

Bases are full, ball hit slowly in front of F1, F1 fields throws to F2 at the plate. With foot on plate F2 is knocked down just as the ball reaches glove. What is the call?

Well, it could be a good news, bad news situation.

Good news, you score; Bad news, your gone.

[EsqUmp]

Knocking a player down is not grounds for ejection. Doing so with great force may be if it is malicious.

There is also no such thing as "just as..." in timing with these plays under most rule sets. She either had possession or she didn't. PERIOD. It's the umpire's responsibility to figure that part out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Knocking a player down is not grounds for ejection. Doing so with great force may be if it is malicious.

Maybe, maybe not. If a player intentionally contacts a player hard enough to knock them off their feet, that player needs to leave whether it was with great force, malicious or whatever.

It is like pulling the trigger on a gun. Once you do, no matter what the intention, you no longer have control over that projectile(s). Same here. The intent may not have been to injure the player, but that is something beyond one's control and there is no room for it in amateur ball.

[big poppa 7]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Knocking a player down is not grounds for ejection. Doing so with great force may be if it is malicious.



There is also no such thing as "just as..." in timing with these plays under most rule sets. She either had possession or she didn't. PERIOD. It's the umpire's responsibility to figure that part out.

My intent on the "just as" was so everyone could picture the play as being close. The fielder was making a play. She wasn't blocking the plate waiting for the play. But I know the runner has a right to the base too. So with 12 year old girls was this collision where the girl was knocked off her feet hard, a legal collision? Is the runner out or safe? And if collisions at this age in rec ball are not to be tolerated what is the penalty?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[chapmaja]

The question I would have on this is where on the plate was the left foot. If it was on the back corner of the plate and the runner had nowhere to touch on the plate, I don't think I have anything on the runner because I'm not penalizing a runner for running into a defensive player who is blocking the plate (unless I deem the runners action to be malicious).

Now if F2 has her foot on the front edge of the plate and the runner has the entire plate to touch but still manages to run into F2 with enough force to knock her down, it is much more possible that I have malicious contact.

If the run scores or not depends on if the runner had touched the plate when the contact occurred. If she had, then the run counts and I likely have an ejection. If the runner hadn't touched yet, no run scores, and the malicious contact gets the player an early exit.

[EsqUmp]

When the ball, runner and the defensive player arrive at the same time and place, and contact is made, the umpire should not invoke the crash rule, interference, or obstruction. This is merely incidental contact, or as some persons commonly call, "a wreck."


For an ejection, the conduct must be flagrant.

[big poppa 7]

What if the defensive player was there waiting?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk