Unsure Ump on D3k

alblueboy · #1 (**permalink**) Sun May 10, 2015, 08:48am

NFHS
Ball field is extremely dry and dusty. 1st base is open.

1 ball..2 strikes on batter. Next pitch is low and a cloud of dust arises on impact with additional dust as the catcher attempts to catch it.
Batter swings and runs to 1st. No play is attempted and the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle.

BR thinks she is out and steps off. Coach at 3rd wants a ruling on the D3k. Time is called and PU goes to confer with FU. He states that he didn't see it. After a discussion it is ruled that the ball hit the ground first before the catch.

Question
Should BR be called out for a LBR violation??

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Sun May 10, 2015, 09:08am

Quote:

Originally Posted by alblueboy

NFHS
Ball field is extremely dry and dusty. 1st base is open.

1 ball..2 strikes on batter. Next pitch is low and a cloud of dust arises on impact with additional dust as the catcher attempts to catch it.
Batter swings and runs to 1st. No play is attempted and the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle.

BR thinks she is out and steps off. Coach at 3rd wants a ruling on the D3k. Time is called and PU goes to confer with FU. He states that he didn't see it. After a discussion it is ruled that the ball hit the ground first before the catch.

Question
Should BR be called out for a LBR violation??

Like the previous two times, if there is an LBR violation, call it; And that is why there is a coach @ 1B

CecilOne · #3 (**permalink**) Sun May 10, 2015, 11:30am

Same as Mike said, plus the dust/non-visibility.
Looks to me like the dust caused "never guess an out".

CajunNewBlue · #4 (**permalink**) Sun May 10, 2015, 03:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by alblueboy

NFHS
Ball field is extremely dry and dusty. 1st base is open.

1 ball..2 strikes on batter. Next pitch is low and a cloud of dust arises on impact with additional dust as the catcher attempts to catch it.
Batter swings and runs to 1st. No play is attempted and the ball is returned to the pitcher in the circle.

BR thinks she is out and steps off. Coach at 3rd wants a ruling on the D3k. Time is called and PU goes to confer with FU. He states that he didn't see it. After a discussion it is ruled that the ball hit the ground first before the catch.

Question
Should BR be called out for a LBR violation??

by rule.. yes LBR... ball was in the circle and under control. BUT, get ready to dump the coach. ... given the exact play you described....the BR needs to control her actions throughout play.

EsqUmp · #5 (**permalink**) Wed May 13, 2015, 06:27am

Umpires placed runner in jeopardy by never making a call. Placed defense in jeopardy as well. Rectify the situation as best as possible.

Track the ball into the glove and this won't be a problem.

CecilOne · #6 (**permalink**) Wed May 13, 2015, 08:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Umpires placed runner in jeopardy by never making a call.

Do you mean announcing "batter is out", assuming a catch?

Dakota · #7 (**permalink**) Wed May 13, 2015, 09:37am

How is the OP situation any different if the umpires did clearly see the D3K?

There would have been no call other than strike 3. BR would have run to 1B. Defense chose to make no play and returns the ball to the pitcher. BR steps off the base.

How does the late recognition that it was a D3K change anything?

CecilOne · #8 (**permalink**) Wed May 13, 2015, 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dakota

How is the OP situation any different if the umpires did clearly see the D3K?

There would have been no call other than strike 3. BR would have run to 1B. Defense chose to make no play and returns the ball to the pitcher. BR steps off the base.

How does the late recognition that it was a D3K change anything?

If caught, LBR. If not caught, apparent jeopardy?

MD Longhorn · #9 (**permalink**) Wed May 13, 2015, 11:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Umpires placed runner in jeopardy by never making a call. Placed defense in jeopardy as well. Rectify the situation as best as possible.

I disagree 100%. The only way an umpired placed the runner in jeopardy here is if someone signaled an out. This batter-runner is out regardless of whether the ball was caught or not ... either by strikeout or by LBR.

EsqUmp · #10 (**permalink**) Fri May 15, 2015, 06:43am

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I disagree 100%. The only way an umpired placed the runner in jeopardy here is if someone signaled an out. This batter-runner is out regardless of whether the ball was caught or not ... either by strikeout or by LBR.

The umpires completely F-ed up. Don't hold the players to a higher standard than the umpires. Fix the situation. Two wrongs don't equal an out.

MD Longhorn · #11 (**permalink**) Fri May 15, 2015, 08:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

The umpires completely F-ed up. Don't hold the players to a higher standard than the umpires. Fix the situation. Two wrongs don't equal an out.

Really? The umpires (assuming they didn't say "batter out" or signal that batter out) did not do anything to cause anything that put anyone in jeopardy. Unless they indicated in some manner that the BR was out - there was no reason other than poor coaching or dumb baserunning for her to step off after the ball was back in the pitching circle.