Batter "Walks" on Ball 3

[wallyb]

MannyA....thank you very much...now its clear...looking back i see that was what some of the others were trying to explain to me but i just didnt get it for some reason. at times i can be a little thick. thanks for your explanation and for everyones patience. no troll here, just trying to learn a few things

[fdt92]

Just received this email (TASO = Texas High School - NFHS)

Here is a situation that happened and the official policy provided by the TASO State Rules interpreter.

Question: Runners on first and second, one out, 2-2 count on the batter. Pitcher throws ball three. Batter tosses the bat to the dugout and trots to first; the runners jog forward one base (they do not run hard).
Defensive coach realizes what happened and tells her girls to throw to second and tag the runner. At this point, time is called and the offensive coach is told that it was ball 3 on the batter, so she would have to come back, but that the other two runners had legally stolen their bases and they would remain. The Defensive coach complains that this has to be illegal because otherwise batters would do it all the time.

Answer: Rule 8.1 addresses a number of ways a batter becomes a batter-runner. Rule 8.1.1.c. states that a batter becomes a batter-runner "...when...a fourth ball is called by the umpire." Therefore, the batter has no right to leave the batter's box and head to first base when she has a 3 ball count. This happens occasionally when a batter forgets the count and thinks she has ball four. Because the batter has no right to leave the box with a 3 ball count, when this happens the proper action on the part of the umpire(s) would be to immediately call a dead ball. This should prevent the situation you describe in your question. The rules are written with the intention of not allowing a team (offense or defense) to take advantage of the opposing team through "trickery" or deception. When this happens it is considered an "unsporting act"; and, the action you describe borders very closely on being an "unsporting act". In fact, if you believe the action of the batter was intentional, if would be an "unsporting act" and you would call time, call her out, eject her and return the runners. (See Rule 3.6.13.) However, the defensive players (and the runners on base) should always be aware of the count on the batter and be prepared to play accordingly. If, in the situation you describe, the umpire determined that the act was not intentional and time was not called, the runners would be allowed to remain at the bases they attained during the live ball play. If the defense was able to tag a runner out during the play, that out would remain. Additionally, after play has ended and/or time is called, the umpire may warn the offensive coach "...and eject the next player to exhibit behavior that is not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.", in other words an "unsporting act". (See 2015 Case Book 3.6.13 Situation B) This action addresses the defensive coach's concern about repetition of the batter's action.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by fdt92

Just received this email... (TASO = Texas High School)

A few thoughts.

- It should be noted that the case play referenced that calls for a warning/ejection is an NFHS case play.

- I wonder what rule would allow you to call this batter OUT for her "unsporting act"? (Certainly not the one cited in the reply)

- "Defensive coach complains that this has to be illegal otherwise batter's would do it all the time".

Doesn't the coach have any faith in his player's ability to keep track of the count? Or, for that matter, his own ability to keep track of it and instruct his players accordingly? If it happened "all the time" wouldn't the defense start to catch on after awhile?

(Okay, probably a waste of bandwidth to point out that a coach's agrument might be illogical and stupid! )

[RKBUmp]

Nowhere in the case play does it call for an out and even states the teams should be aware of the count and play accordingly. It also makes no mention of time being called. What do you tell the defensive coach who's team has recognized the situation and threw to tag the lead runner, but time was called during live playing action?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by fdt92

Just received this email (TASO = Texas High School)

I wasn't planning to umpire in Texas anyway.

[RKBUmp]

I'm currently in TX working and checked into maybe working some games while I'm here. From what I have seen it appears a lot of the state split away from taso and went with other organizations.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by fdt92

Just received this email (TASO = Texas High School - NFHS)
...
In fact, if you believe the action of the batter was intentional, if would be an "unsporting act" and you would call time, call her out, eject her and return the runners. (See Rule 3.6.13.)

Well, whoever sent that really added a bunch of "stuff" that isn't supported by any rules I'm aware of. Call Time? Why? Case play 3.6.13B which is cited doesn't say we call Tim. Even in the case play after that one where a coach from the dugout throws an extra ball onto the field, play is not killed immediately.

Call the batter out? Under what rule? Certainly not under the Unsporting Act rule. The only time we call anyone out under 3-16 is when an offensive player is guilty of malicious contact or fighting. And in rule 7 on batters, I see nothing in there justifying an out call here.

And returning the runner is inappropriate. 3.6.13B's last sentence states that the runner's advance is legal. As the case play points out, the onus is on the defense to know the count.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by fdt92

Just received this email (TASO = Texas High School - NFHS)

Answer: Rule 8.1 addresses a number of ways a batter becomes a batter-runner. Rule 8.1.1.c. states that a batter becomes a batter-runner "...when...a fourth ball is called by the umpire." Therefore, the batter has no right to leave the batter's box and head to first base when she has a 3 ball count. This happens occasionally when a batter forgets the count and thinks she has ball four. Because the batter has no right to leave the box with a 3 ball count, when this happens the proper action on the part of the umpire(s) would be to immediately call a dead ball. This should prevent the situation you describe in your question. The rules are written with the intention of not allowing a team (offense or defense) to take advantage of the opposing team through "trickery" or deception. When this happens it is considered an "unsporting act"; and, the action you describe borders very closely on being an "unsporting act". In fact, if you believe the action of the batter was intentional, if would be an "unsporting act" and you would call time, call her out, eject her and return the runners. (See Rule 3.6.13.) However, the defensive players (and the runners on base) should always be aware of the count on the batter and be prepared to play accordingly. If, in the situation you describe, the umpire determined that the act was not intentional and time was not called, the runners would be allowed to remain at the bases they attained during the live ball play. If the defense was able to tag a runner out during the play, that out would remain. Additionally, after play has ended and/or time is called, the umpire may warn the offensive coach "...and eject the next player to exhibit behavior that is not in accordance with the spirit of fair play.", in other words an "unsporting act". (See 2015 Case Book 3.6.13 Situation B) This action addresses the defensive coach's concern about repetition of the batter's action.

Let me paraphrase.....

Call "TIME" right away
If you think she did it on purpose, call her out and eject her
If you think it was an accident, bring her back and send runners back
Defense needs to be awake
If you don't call "TIME" let the runners stay
Keep the outs if the defense is on the ball....

I'm not seeing where this blurb does anything to help clarify this situation....

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

Let me paraphrase.....

Call "TIME" right away
If you think she did it on purpose, call her out and eject her
If you think it was an accident, bring her back and send runners back
Defense needs to be awake
If you don't call "TIME" let the runners stay
Keep the outs if the defense is on the ball....

I'm not seeing where this blurb does anything to help clarify this situation....

Well said! Just adds to the ambiguity.

[bluejay]

fdt92, can you say who wrote that interpretation?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by bluejay

fdt92, can you say who wrote that interpretation?

Willing to bet the initials are WS.

The "time" recommendation mirrors the ASA case play ruling from KR; again with no real rules support.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Willing to bet the initials are WS.

The "time" recommendation mirrors the ASA case play ruling from KR; again with no real rules support.

WS is the state interpreter for Lone Star High School Softball Officials organization.

[fdt92]

Originally Posted by bluejay

fdt92, can you say who wrote that interpretation?

Joe Brown is the state rule interpreter.
http://www.taso.org/chapter-directory/softball

[bluejay]

I thought he was the interpreter for TASO.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by fdt92

Joe Brown is the state rule interpreter.
http://www.taso.org/chapter-directory/softball

My bad. WS is the official state rule interpreter for UIL, which is the state organization; TASO is, as best I recall the story, the remnants of the organization UIL pretty much ran out of business.