ASA 2015 Rule Changes

[Andy]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Suppose I have 15 players in my dugout. Are my only options:

- Bat 9.

- Bat 15.

What I'm getting at is the new rule seems to say you can bat "everybody". Can you leave a couple on the bench and bat, say, 12 or 13? Is batting "everybody" all or nothing?

The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.

Assumed, but will that be published.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Andy

The same questions was asked as the change was being debated...the intent is to allow the team to bat "up to" the entire roster.

So in Bret's scenario, if he has 15 at the game and decides to bat 12, and he loses one due to injury, he's not allowed to enter one of his three remaining bench players to replace her? And then if he loses a second starter due to injury, he has to forfeit due to the shorthanded rule?

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Manny A

So in Bret's scenario, if he has 15 at the game and decides to bat 12, and he loses one due to injury, he's not allowed to enter one of his three remaining bench players to replace her? And then if he loses a second starter due to injury, he has to forfeit due to the shorthanded rule?

The intent of the change was to allow a team to bat "up to" the total number of players on their roster. The NUS immediately pointed out that the shorthanded rule states that if a team drops below one less than what they started the game with, the game is forfeited. The author of the rule change then amended the rule change proposal to indicate that the shorthanded rule would not come into effect unless a team dropped below 8 players.

If a team has 15 players, bats 12, then the other three players are legal substitutes. The shorthanded rule would not come into effect until that team could not provide 8 batters in the lineup.

I'm sure that there will be some additional clarifications issued regarding this.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

The intent of the change was to allow a team to bat "up to" the total number of players on their roster. The NUS immediately pointed out that the shorthanded rule states that if a team drops below one less than what they started the game with, the game is forfeited. The author of the rule change then amended the rule change proposal to indicate that the shorthanded rule would not come into effect unless a team dropped below 8 players.

If a team has 15 players, bats 12, then the other three players are legal substitutes. The shorthanded rule would not come into effect until that team could not provide 8 batters in the lineup.

Don't think that is correct.

The shorthanded rule should apply at all times. The team can NEVER drop below 8 players.

As noted in OP:

Rule 4, Section 1D[2A] Exception: In all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only; When a team elects to bat more than nine batters the game will continue with the skipped batter being recorded as an out whenever a player leaves the game for any reason other than an ejection. Teams cannot play with less than 8 players.
Comment: Defines the shorthanded rule when batting more than 9 batters in all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch pool play.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Don't think that is correct.

The shorthanded rule should apply at all times. The team can NEVER drop below 8 players.

As noted in OP:

Rule 4, Section 1D[2A] Exception: In all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch Pool Play Only; When a team elects to bat more than nine batters the game will continue with the skipped batter being recorded as an out whenever a player leaves the game for any reason other than an ejection. Teams cannot play with less than 8 players.
Comment: Defines the shorthanded rule when batting more than 9 batters in all Junior Olympic Fast Pitch pool play.

I'm confused....what do you think is incorrect?

Here was the original scenario when the rule change was first proposed:

Team has 13 players and elects to bat them all.
Two players are injured and cannot continue in the game.
Per the shorthanded rule (4-2-D), this game would be a forfeit, even though the team still had 11 players in the batting lineup and could field a full team on defense. The shorthanded rule goes into effect when a team drops below one less than they started with in the batting lineup.

The rule change to allow a team to bat up to the number of players on the roster carries a provision that the shorthanded rule will not go into effect until a team cannot bat 8 players

[CecilOne]

Is the confusion from terminology of the rule change explanation?

A team could "play shorthanded" if someone leaves regardless of how many in the lineup, so the shorthanded rule "applies".

The forfeit provision that has applied in the past would cause a forfeit if the team was "short" more than one player, based on the original requirement of max. 9 batters. That math meant playing with 8 batting was ok, less than 8 was a forfeit.

The new "rule" (or lack of it) to allow multiple extra batters then allows multiple short hands down to a minimum of 8.
That implies the possibility of multiple shorthanded outs in the lineup, perhaps an entire inning.

.................................................. .............
Comments:
It would be better to stick with limiting shorthanded to one short.

LRAMBF

Soccer minimum is 7.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

The new "rule" (or lack of it) to allow multiple extra batters then allows multiple short hands down to a minimum of 8.
That implies the possibility of multiple shorthanded outs in the lineup, perhaps an entire inning.

That's the other thing I thought about last night that made me wonder about the benefit of the rule. A team has 14 players, and wants to bat them all. They could lose five of them and still play shorthanded, but they would give up five outs each time through the line-up. That makes no sense to me.

Yes, I realize the likelihood of that happening is pretty slim. But why couldn't they just leave well enough alone?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Andy

I'm confused....what do you think is incorrect?

Here was the original scenario when the rule change was first proposed:

Team has 13 players and elects to bat them all.
Two players are injured and cannot continue in the game.
Per the shorthanded rule (4-2-D), this game would be a forfeit, even though the team still had 11 players in the batting lineup and could field a full team on defense. The shorthanded rule goes into effect when a team drops below one less than they started with in the batting lineup.

The rule change to allow a team to bat up to the number of players on the roster carries a provision that the shorthanded rule will not go into effect until a team cannot bat 8 players

Well, really it give the minimum number of players necessary to continue the game. The new rule clearly states the shorthanded rule is in effect when a player must leave the BO for any reason other than ejection.