What's the call and rule reference (ASA)

[MD Longhorn]

Wait... you said, "The ball pops out. I kill the play and call the runner out for the contact."

Then you said you didn't have MC.

So why did you call the runner out, and why did you kill the play. If you don't have MC, you have a runner that's safe at home.

There's something I'm obviously not following here.

[PSUchem]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wait... you said, "The ball pops out. I kill the play and call the runner out for the contact."

Then you said you didn't have MC.

So why did you call the runner out, and why did you kill the play. If you don't have MC, you have a runner that's safe at home.

There's something I'm obviously not following here.

Actually saw this one the other day at a local tournament. I thought the same as MD. I thought you either had 1) malicious contact resulting in an out for interference, runners return, and an ejection or 2) no malicious contact, with no penalty -- play on, likely with the runner being safe because the ball came out.

Unfortunately, 8-7-Q does not read that way.

ASA 8-7-Q: The runner is out... when a defensive player has the ball and the runner remains upright and crashes into the defensive player. EFFECT: The ball is dead. The runner is out. All runners must return to the last base touched. If the act is determined to be flagrant, the offender shall be ejected.

So it appears that you have 2 different situations IF there was contact.
1) There was contact but not malicious. Apply typical interference penalties.
2) There was contact that WAS malicious. Apply typical interference penalties AND eject.

Now, we can debate what "crash" means. It sounds like once the defender has the ball, any contact by the runner while remaining on his/her feet is essentially interference. Only if it is deemed flagrant is there an ejection.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wait... you said, "The ball pops out. I kill the play and call the runner out for the contact."

Then you said you didn't have MC.

So why did you call the runner out, and why did you kill the play. If you don't have MC, you have a runner that's safe at home.

There's something I'm obviously not following here.

Crash interference and malicious/flagrant contact are two different things.

You can have an out for crash interference, but no ejection if teh contact wasn't malicious/flagrant.

[chapmaja]

Had another play at the plate tonight that almost resulted in an ejection. Similar situation, with a runner coming home and the throw easily beats the runner to the plate. F1 (covering home since it's Co-Rec) catches the ball and is standing slightly in front of the plate, but reaches to apply the tag. The runner continues running in a straight line and runs through the tag causing F1 to spin about half way around and drop the ball.

What's the call on this. The runner made no attempt to dislodge the ball and the only contact between the runner and F1 was with the arm and glove of F1 during the tag attempt.

My ruling was ................. eventually safe, since the runner never actually touched the plate. F1 was so upset arguing that he never listened to the bench telling him I think the runner missed the plate.

I did not deem the act of the runner to be interference because it was simply contact while a tag was being applied to the runner. This is different then the OP in which the contact was not just with the tagging portion of the player, but a body to body avoidable collision.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Wait... you said, "The ball pops out. I kill the play and call the runner out for the contact."

Then you said you didn't have MC.

So why did you call the runner out, and why did you kill the play. If you don't have MC, you have a runner that's safe at home.

There's something I'm obviously not following here.

The reason is simple. I, in my opinion think there is a distinction in the rules between MC and running into a fielder with the ball, causing a collision which knocks the ball out. To me MC means you intentionally do something to create the contact outside of the normal playing action of the game, such as lower a shoulder into the fielder, raising an elbow into the runner, or something else designed to create additional (and potentially dangerous contact) between a runner and a fielder. In this case the runner was running in from 3rd, but just kept running with no attempt to avoid the contact with a fielder clearly in possession of the ball well before the runner arrived.

The way I read the rule does not say you only can kill the play if you rule the contact to be MC. You can only ejected the player if you deem the contact to be MC.

Think of it this way. A runner running in who intentionally swipes the arm down across a fielders glove to dislodge the ball. Would you rule that MC? I would say most people would say no, but the out would be called right.