NCAA Kills the Scissors

[EsqUmp]

Getting hit there has absolutely nothing to do with working a GD stance. With the exception of working the scissors or if you hump the catcher like Phil Cuzzi, anyone could have taken that hit.

In 12 years of working a GD, I have not sustained any real injury or substantial pain getting hit. Maybe I'm just lucky. The one time I got drilled in the hand is when my evaluator had me move out of the GD to a ASA-clone style heal-toe.

[Rich]

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

No, I won't, but I wouldn't wear one of those anyway. Those "helmets" were not designed for umpires, but hockey goal tenders. You might notice, they don't wear hats in hockey, either.

I'm meeting a friend tonight who ended up in rehab for over 6 months thanks to one of them.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm meeting a friend tonight who ended up in rehab for over 6 months thanks to one of them.

Care to share what happened? I have thought of using a bucket but haven't made a decision.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by nopachunts

Care to share what happened? I have thought of using a bucket but haven't made a decision.

Baseball. Took a pitch in the forehead. No give to the mask/helmet, caused a whiplash type of effect on his neck.

Tonight, told me he has gone back to the mask, but every time he takes a hit, there are more problems. Took a hit Wednesday and cannot work until Sunday at the earliest.

Prior to the original hit, he had worked ASA, NFHS, NCAA & ISF ball without incident for over 20 years. He did not move to the hockey-style mask until he started working baseball.

[bluejay]

I only can think of one softball official in this area that wears the hockey mask so I don't know of any injuries here. However, in a MLB game a few months ago I watched a catcher with the hockey mask take two off the helmet. He had to leave the game after the second hit. It was obvious to me that the helmet had no "give". It just stayed right in place. The mask should be able to absorb and move or even get knocked off. The helmet will not do that.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by bluejay

I only can think of one softball official in this area that wears the hockey mask so I don't know of any injuries here. However, in a MLB game a few months ago I watched a catcher with the hockey mask take two off the helmet. He had to leave the game after the second hit. It was obvious to me that the helmet had no "give". It just stayed right in place. The mask should be able to absorb and move or even get knocked off. The helmet will not do that.

OTOH, Joe Mauer took a foul ball off his traditional catcher's mask, suffered a concussion, and had to give up catching.

Is there any data (rather than anecdotes) about the relative safety of the hockey-style helmet v. traditional mask?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

I suppose that is one way to look at it. My view is a bit different.

Every rule book that has an umpire section defines the umpire uniform (and equipment), so far as I know. Some parts are optional (chest protector, for example), some parts have alternate versions (different color combinations), some parts are required. Every one I know about requires a hat as a mandated part of the uniform.

Until that is changed, the desire to wear a different style mask/helmet that is designed to NOT have a hat simply doesn't meet the requirement. Just like a catcher's mask without a throat protector. So, either work to change the rule, or convince the manufacturers to design one that complies. Until then, the rule and the helmet are incompatible.

We have elected to be the enforcers of the rules as they apply to the game; that hat is part of the rules, like it or not.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

As an arbiter, one who is entrusted to apply the rules as they are written, you are correct. I will conform to the REQUIRED uniform. A UNIFORM is just that, UNIFORM. It isn't called an ARBITRARY for a reason.

[PATRICK]

Originally Posted by Rich

Sounds to me like people are using their positions to push their personal preference.

Reminds me of the people who figured out nonsense ways to effectively ban umpire helmets years ago (my favorite was requiring umpires to wear 4-stitch hats under them, even though they are designed to be worn without hats).

YOU! WILL! CONFORM!

You don't have to conform. You do have a choice. You can do baseball where anything goes.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

You don't have to conform. You do have a choice. You can do baseball where anything goes.

Thank goodness.

[texump]

There have been some very successful NCAA softball umpires who used the scissors.

It would be interesting to find out what "studies" the SUP has to show the increase in injuries and inconsistent strike zones.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by texump

There have been some very successful NCAA softball umpires who used the scissors.

It would be interesting to find out what "studies" the SUP has to show the increase in injuries and inconsistent strike zones.

Just when we thought this topic was about masks and hats , someone goes back to the OP.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by texump

There have been some very successful NCAA softball umpires who used the scissors.

It would be interesting to find out what "studies" the SUP has to show the increase in injuries and inconsistent strike zones.

I had an occasion to speak with someone this past weekend that provided some unique insight into the banning of the scissors plate stance.

What I was told is that there is a study out there done by Major League Baseball a few years back that showed that there is a sightly increased risk of a head or neck injury when using the scissors if the umpire is hit by a pitched or fouled ball in a certain spot. MLB used this data to ban any of their new umpires from using the scissors.

I was also told that allowing NCAA umpires to use any plate stance they were comfortable in as long as they were able to see the ball and call a good zone was brought in by the "old" SUIP, which was removed from power a few years back. So the "new" regime is going to slowly eliminate all of the changes brought in previously. I also heard that most of the college coaches don't like the scissors for some reason.

As to the longtime NCAA umpires that are "grandfathered" in and will still be allowed to use the scissors. That number is limited to ten umpires. Some of these umpires have worked the WCWS in the past and have aspirations of going back. What was mentioned to me is that if these umpires elect to continue to use the scissors, is there really a chance of the powers that be selecting them to go back to the WCWS? The last time one of these prominent umpires went to the WCWS, they were only assigned one plate game for the entire week.

I realize this is all hearsay...take it as you will. I trust the source and have never been steered wrong before.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Andy

...So the "new" regime is going to slowly eliminate all of the changes brought in previously. I also heard that most of the college coaches don't like the scissors ...

This sounds like the real reason(s), with the rest being window dressing.