Sharing what I learn here...

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by youngump

If that's the crux of the issue, then how do you rule in this situation: slow pitch game, 0-2 count. R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd, BR hits a weird bouncer into foul territory that hits a rock and is starting to head fair. R1 has already scored when the First baseman tries to glove the ball in foul territory to keep it foul. Seeing this the very alert BR pushes his glove out of the way. The ball rolls into first base causing it to come to rest.

Now same issue, but on the third base side with R2 committing the interference.

In all cases the attempt to field the foul ball is an attempt to get an out and therefore a play.

Further, if it's impossible to interfere with an attempt to field this ball, then not only is it not interference in this situation but the runners have done nothing that would make the ball dead. And as soon as the ball is fair, there's no play left, so we're just going to make no call here? And what of all the rules that talk about interference while the ball is over fair territory?

To me the crux of the matter is that the rule is very badly drafted. I'm pretty sure the expected call is: if the ball is in foul territory when the defense is interfered with and it's not a fly ball then we simply have a foul ball. I can't believe that the rule book really meant to distinguish between the results of the first and second play I listed above.

As I see it, you (and the definitions of PLAY and interference) answered your own questions. When it is a PLAY, there can be interference; if no PLAY, no interference. These definitions don't change when it is a runner versus a batter-runner, or a fair versus foul ball.

When the 3k foul is an out in slowpitch, interfering with fielding it and making it foul by touching it can be interference, while keeping it foul simply isn't in fastpitch. It's not really different from differentiating between a fly ball over foul territory that can be a PLAY and a bounding ball over foul territory; it either can or cannot be a PLAY, depending on the game you are playing.

That's what the rules say; you seem to be looking for a greater cosmic understanding.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

When the 3k foul is an out in slowpitch, interfering with fielding it and making it foul by touching it can be interference, while keeping it foul simply isn't in fastpitch.

So in my two scenarios on your field. BR is out in the first. Foul ball on the second?

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

That's what the rules say; you seem to be looking for a greater cosmic understanding.

Well, what the rules say often has very little to do with how the game is called. If it isn't interference to keep a fielder from keeping the ball foul, then the ball presumably remains live? (On the theory that no rule has made it dead)

[tcannizzo]

All BR has to do is contact the ball (kick) while it is in foul territory, then you have a foul ball.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

All BR has to do is contact the ball (kick) while it is in foul territory, then you have a foul ball.

This is true and the rule supports it.

AFA a play for INT, rule 8.2.F.1 does not mention a play or the word "play", but specifically does mention an attempt to field a batted ball.

Reading any more into it, IMO, could be considered just an attempt to justify a belief that is not supported by the rules.

Should it be changed? Probably, but until it is, why shouldn't the rule be applied as written?

[youngump]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

This is true and the rule supports it.

AFA a play for INT, rule 8.2.F.1 does not mention a play or the word "play", but specifically does mention an attempt to field a batted ball.

Reading any more into it, IMO, could be considered just an attempt to justify a belief that is not supported by the rules.

Should it be changed? Probably, but until it is, why shouldn't the rule be applied as written?

So I'm a little confused here now. I thought you were arguing the same thing Steve was, foul ball in both cases. Now I think I understand your comment about slow pitch being irrelevant.

So am I correct in understanding that you're saying to rule on this as the rule book is written.

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd, BR hits a weird bouncer into foul territory that hits a rock and is starting to head fair. R1 has already scored when the First baseman tries to glove the ball in foul territory to keep it foul. Seeing this the very alert BR pushes his glove out of the way. The ball rolls into first base causing it to come to rest.

Is your ruling: Dead ball at the time the glove is hit, interference, the runner is out. (Not sure if you'd score the run here or call BR out and then call it foul)?

Now same issue, but on the third base side with R2 committing the interference.

Ruling: Foul ball, R2 is guilty of interference but the penalty is just that the ball is foul?

Steve you haven't answered how you'd rule on these either, but I don't think you and Mike agree and I'd love to see you two settle it because when we started this I just thought the rule book was confusing for a play that I understood. Now I have no clue what is expected on this.

[MD Longhorn]

Seems to me this is clearly just a foul ball in all softball codes. (And clearly an out in all baseball codes).

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by youngump

So I'm a little confused here now. I thought you were arguing the same thing Steve was, foul ball in both cases. Now I think I understand your comment about slow pitch being irrelevant.

So am I correct in understanding that you're saying to rule on this as the rule book is written.

R1 at 3rd, R2 at 2nd, BR hits a weird bouncer into foul territory that hits a rock and is starting to head fair. R1 has already scored when the First baseman tries to glove the ball in foul territory to keep it foul. Seeing this the very alert BR pushes his glove out of the way. The ball rolls into first base causing it to come to rest.

Is your ruling: Dead ball at the time the glove is hit, interference, the runner is out. (Not sure if you'd score the run here or call BR out and then call it foul)?

Now same issue, but on the third base side with R2 committing the interference.

Ruling: Foul ball, R2 is guilty of interference but the penalty is just that the ball is foul?

Steve you haven't answered how you'd rule on these either, but I don't think you and Mike agree and I'd love to see you two settle it because when we started this I just thought the rule book was confusing for a play that I understood. Now I have no clue what is expected on this.

I am agreeing that there is an inconsistency between the rules governing the BR and the R.

I am suggesting that lacking a change or a specific interpretation to contradict the rule, you call the rule as written which specifically states that if the BR interferes with the defender attempting to field a BATTED BALL.

Again, I agree it may not be right, but it is what it is.