The Official Forum - A simple yes or no......

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 936831)

Runners at first and third, BU in C. Ground ball to F5, and she throws high to first base. F3 moves back and jumps up to catch the throw, and manages to come down with the ball and her foot touches the very far edge (closest to the fence) of the orange bag. She then tries to swipe tag the BR because she thinks she was supposed to touch white, and misses the tag by inches.

BU rules the runner Out on the swipe tag. First base coach goes to the BU and points out there was no tag, and the BU comes to you. S(he) says, "Did you see a successful swipe tag?" Are you going to answer, "No, the tag missed," and be done with it? Or are you going to say, "No, the tag missed, but she did come down on the orange bag"?

Not like that, but yes, you make it known as in, "No, I did not see a tag. But we may have a possible protest situation"

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcannizzo (Post 936845)

So, BU screws the pooch twice?
a.) calls BR "Safe - Off the Base!" because of missing the white base?
Should have called Out before the attempted swipe tag.

b.) calls BR Out on an unseen tag, but announces TAG! OUT! ?
Should have called Safe and then gone for help if asked.

It is really hard for me to un-ring an Out without throwing your partner under the bus. BU "saw" the tag that didn't happen - judgement.
What is the lesser of two evils here?
- simply eat a bad judgement call
- or have the call overturned validating/emphasizing the mistake

IMHO the former will be forgotten and forgiven much quicker than the latter. I think we have all seen this happen setting the shit-storm in motion.
I see it as throwing good money after bad.

This would be discussed in great detail in the post-game debrief.

I guess you missed my point.

I was trying to address your comment that the BU should ask for something specific. He did. He thought he saw a tag so he ruled an out, and then he goes to the PU for help after the coach asked him to, and asks the PU if there was a tag.

Should the PU answer his specific question that there was no tag, and offer no more assistance because that's all that was asked of him? Or should the PU discuss the whole play and tell the BU there was no tag, but there was an out because F3 stepped on the bag?

In other words, are you an advocate for specificity, or an advocate for getting the call correct?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CecilOne (Post 936846)

The OP read like not visible from "C".

Therefore call the Out and wait for an appeal on a pulled foot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 936849)

In this case, specificity.
As BU I would only go to my partner with something specific, typically looking for a yes/no response..
Now there are questions that have a yes/no response that are not specific enough, like "Did I kick that call?"

I would wait for DC to come out and ask for help on unpulling the foot on the initial play.

Now if this was a rec game and a young umpire, I may be inclined to cut the partner some slack and use it as a teaching moment. The OP has all the makings of this. And if so, I would have asked why the tag call was relevant to the play.