Being Looked Upon as an OOJ

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

...However, when I see some team trying to put their ODB's in the wrong circle, I know that team is coming from some place that has made up rules, and I'm anticipating something idiotic from that coach (or parents or both) at some point.

I don't know if expecting something idiotic necessarily follows.

The "ODB uses the circle behind the batter" is almost 100% universal in MN for girls fastpitch.

The MSHSL (high schools) adopted this as an experiment with permission from the NFHS several years ago, and has retained it. At least a couple of years before that, the predominant girls fastpitch association in MN wrote it into their rule book, and it has since been adopted as a local rule by most fastpitch leagues.

It is viewed as a safety rule.

It is silly and unnecessary, of course. Besides the fact that being behind the batter is not actually safe, if the field really is too small to accommodate a proper distance from the ODC and the plate, just keep the ODB in the dugout!

Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect that all MN teams' coaches would be idiotic just because of this!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Dakota

I don't know if expecting something idiotic necessarily follows.

The "ODB uses the circle behind the batter" is almost 100% universal in MN for girls fastpitch.

Nonetheless, I wouldn't expect that all MN teams' coaches would be idiotic just because of this!

Well in your case that makes sense. It's not out of the ordinary there.

The reason I expect something nonsensical from a coach who does that here is that it's NOT normal here. It means they come from some area that felt compelled to add that to their rules AND the coach is not even aware that it's abnormal. (One would think that once tourney season starts, they would have had the opportunity to have the odd-rules-stuff knocked off of them after just one weekend).

IOW - if they are doing this abnormal thing in the summer, then I can usually expect them to do something or say something equally abnormal.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by Manny A

I worked one day of our State ASA tourney this past weekend.

It started during the equipment check. Not one batting helmet had a chin strap, as required by ASA rules. When my partner and I pointed it out, we of course got the, "Well, the other umpires..." whine. Against our better judgment, we let it go and told them they needed to get chin straps for the next day's play.

No need for the crew to struggle with the decision to 'go with' or "against [its] better judgement."
It was....."our State ASA tourney...." as such, it was Championship play. As a crew, why would you choose to set aside 3.5-E without consultation (either on-site or by phone) with the TD or the UIC assigned to the site?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Even when it is a book rule ??

Where in the rule book does it allow the umpire crew to waive the required equipment?

[IRISHMAFIA]

AFA the ODC is concerned, if the field is that small that room is limited, the ODC should be outside the fence with a team area designation.

And, of course, no one has a problem with alleged "safety" rules, right up until the whining starts because this player said this or called her that or is accused of trying to steal signs or blocking the coach giving signs, yada, yada, yada.....and yes, it DOES happen and I pity the umpire who thinks that once a comment to that effect is made, it will stop with a warning.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

AFA the ODC is concerned, if the field is that small that room is limited, the ODC should be outside the fence with a team area designation.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And, of course, no one has a problem with alleged "safety" rules, right up until the whining starts because this player said this or called her that or is accused of trying to steal signs or blocking the coach giving signs, yada, yada, yada.....and yes, it DOES happen and I pity the umpire who thinks that once a comment to that effect is made, it will stop with a warning.

Maybe it's the mythical "Minnesota Nice", but we've been using this in girls fastpitch for a number of years in both high school and travel ball from 10U through 18U, and speaking personally, I've had no problems at all in any of the games I've umpired. I still don't like the rule (I think it is pointless and silly), but it has created no problems in my games.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Agreed.

Maybe it's the mythical "Minnesota Nice", but we've been using this in girls fastpitch for a number of years in both high school and travel ball from 10U through 18U, and speaking personally, I've had no problems at all in any of the games I've umpired. I still don't like the rule (I think it is pointless and silly), but it has created no problems in my games.

It doesn't matter to me. Just tell me what you want so I can tell my girls which side they have to go to.

BTW, I am enjoying sitting on a bucket outside the dugout, though, knowing I would never allow such a thing when I'm umpiring. I always wait till the other coach does it first.

[KCRC]

Originally Posted by Rich

BTW, I am enjoying sitting on a bucket outside the dugout, though, knowing I would never allow such a thing when I'm umpiring. I always wait till the other coach does it first.

This made me laugh as I remembered an incident from earlier this summer. I'm coaching 1st base in my daughter's 8U coach-pitch game. The opposing team coach is sitting on a bucket outside of the dugout when one of our players comes to bat without proper equipment. He immediately starts complaining to the PU to make the girl get a new helmet. He looks at me and says, "I'm sorry, but rules are rules." I just smiled and nodded and waited as our batter swapped helmets with a friend. Ahhh, the irony.

[chapmaja]

I am going to disagree with those of you who think the ODB being in the ODC behind the batter isn't safer.

I have seen ODB's in safe ODC's get hit by foul balls. One instance was at a University of Michigan game. The batter was late on her swing and hit a screaming line drive into the ODC where her team mate was standing. Thankful it did not her square and only glanced off her arm. Still it hurt her enough that the trainer had to take a look at her.

I'm sure the ODC at Michigan meets all of the distance requirements for being away from the plate.

What I have yet to see is a batter in the ODC behind the batter get hit by anything hit remotely hard towards her.

The league I work rec ball in has the requirement that the ODB be in the ODC behind the batter. The reason? A few years ago we had a girl seriously injured taking a foul ball off the side of the neck while standing in the ODC in front of the batter. Was she paying attention to what was going on? From what I heard no, but we needed to be prepared for worst case situations and the worst case situation is a line drive hit into the ODC while the ODB isn't paying attention.

Now as for the stealing signs or talking trash issue. Our rule is simple. If there is anything witnessed by the umpire (s) the team loses the ODC for the remainder of the game. We have yet to enforce this since I've been working that league.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I am going to disagree with those of you who think the ODB being in the ODC behind the batter isn't safer.

I have seen ODB's in safe ODC's get hit by foul balls. One instance was at a University of Michigan game. The batter was late on her swing and hit a screaming line drive into the ODC where her team mate was standing. Thankful it did not her square and only glanced off her arm. Still it hurt her enough that the trainer had to take a look at her.

I'm sure the ODC at Michigan meets all of the distance requirements for being away from the plate.

What I have yet to see is a batter in the ODC behind the batter get hit by anything hit remotely hard towards her.

The league I work rec ball in has the requirement that the ODB be in the ODC behind the batter. The reason? A few years ago we had a girl seriously injured taking a foul ball off the side of the neck while standing in the ODC in front of the batter. Was she paying attention to what was going on? From what I heard no, but we needed to be prepared for worst case situations and the worst case situation is a line drive hit into the ODC while the ODB isn't paying attention.

Now as for the stealing signs or talking trash issue. Our rule is simple. If there is anything witnessed by the umpire (s) the team loses the ODC for the remainder of the game. We have yet to enforce this since I've been working that league.

So in the ball you work, every batter swings late? The ODB is only unsafe if on the opposite side?

Start calling higher level ball where the dead pull hitters jerk everything foul behind them, and with much greater force than hitting opposite. Your U of Michigan Sierra Lawrence could take the head off the on deck batter; she grew up in my area.

Just because you haven't seen it in your JV schedule doesn't make it remotely appropriate for higher level play. No major organization, NCAA, ISF, ASA, NFHS allow on deck batters anywhere but THEIR side; for good reasons.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Where in the rule book does it allow the umpire crew to waive the required equipment?

Nowhere, I was questioning your comment that the TD could overrule a book rule.

"That is not your call. The is up to the TD, not the umpire"

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

... No major organization, NCAA, ISF, ASA, NFHS allow on deck batters anywhere but THEIR side; for good reasons.

except for ASA Men's FP, because they whined about it.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

I am going to disagree with those of you who think the ODB being in the ODC behind the batter isn't safer. ...What I have yet to see is a batter in the ODC behind the batter get hit by anything hit remotely hard towards her. ...

I never claimed that behind the batter wasn't safer; I said it was "not actually safe". As I said, I have a number of years experience with this rule, up through 18U and varsity high school, and I have seen a number of screaming foul balls hit toward the ODB behind the batter, and a few make contact. It could be argued that being behind the batter gives the ODB a false sense of safety and could lead to even more inattention.

Nonetheless, in your example, if they wanted to actually put the ODC in a safe location, they'd put it outside the fence. Any location within the playing field is still subject to being hit by a batted ball:
Minor League Coach Killed By Line Drive

[CecilOne]

There is a HS coach near here who insists on having ithe ODB about 15 feet from the batter instead of 30 feet, when behind the batter.
He kind of proved geometrically that the angle to the closer position is even less likely for the batter to hit the ODB.
This is 3rd base dugout with RH batters.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Nowhere, I was questioning your comment that the TD could overrule a book rule.

"That is not your call. The is up to the TD, not the umpire"

The TD has the authority to do whatever necessary to complete the tournament. I think it is ridiculous that they can, but my point actually was the umpire CANNOT.

BTW, this is routine in your area when it came to state tournaments whether it was a uniform or ball or double-base or chin straps or whatever.