The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball
Register FAQ Community Calendar Today's Posts Search

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:02pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Glendale, AZ
Posts: 2,672
Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump View Post
I'm not sure that's right. From time to time around here someone will come around and ask if such and such is illegal because they can't find a rule that makes it legal. And they'll hear. "If it's not against the rules, it's legal." Now you're saying if it's not against the rules than it's a 10-1 situation and I think that oversimplifies the situation greatly.
That is not what I am saying at all....I am using that rule to address this one specific situation.

Letting a fielder with the ball intentionally trip a runner to make it easier to get an out is not, in my opinion, something the rule makers intended.
__________________
It's what you learn after you think you know it all that's important!
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 11, 2014, 05:09pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
That is not what I am saying at all....I am using that rule to address this one specific situation.

Letting a fielder with the ball intentionally trip a runner to make it easier to get an out is not, in my opinion, something the rule makers intended.
One could argue that in the situation I presented, there was intent. That is, the fielder intentionally placed her leg in front of the runner, and the runner tripped over it. Her intent was not to trip the runner directly, but her intentional act did trip the runner.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 07:19am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: USA
Posts: 14,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy View Post
That is not what I am saying at all....I am using that rule to address this one specific situation.

Letting a fielder with the ball intentionally trip a runner to make it easier to get an out is not, in my opinion, something the rule makers intended.
So a fielder with possession of the ball cannot slide in front of an advancing runner to keep her from touching the base until after the tag is applied?

The reason I asked the rule set is because ISF does have an allowance for a defender with the ball, but not making a play on the runner to be called for OBS. Rare, but I guess somewhere along the way something happened to cause that rule to exist.

If it wasn't intentional, IMO, the call would be out. I do, however, find it strange that F3 was reaching for a base that was so far away that a felled advancing runner was still short of the base.
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 08:22am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
I do, however, find it strange that F3 was reaching for a base that was so far away that a felled advancing runner was still short of the base.
Recalibrating for level of play...
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:18pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: midwest/plains
Posts: 402
Had something kind of similar happen the other night. 18U using ASA rules. R1 on 2nd, left handed batter. F5 is well off the line and fields a ground ball. Reaching for a tag she had put the ball in her throwing hand, but reaching with her glove hand, slowing up/obviously impedes the runner, and then reaching back with the ball to tag R1 in the back.

Had F5 not hooked R1 with the glove (non-ball) hand, she would have safely reached 3rd. I (BU) called the runner out on the tag. OC came out to ask about obstruction. As I've said before I am an ex-(licensed) umpire who did NFHS/NCAA with my last test about 5 years ago, but get called upon when necessary.

THe PU is an ASA umpire so I brought him into the conversation. I had a hard time calling obstuction on the player with the ball, but he told me to call it OBS, so I did.

This was in the top of the 1st. It took 45 minutes to get 3 outs(including a step-off for the 2nd out, but coach wouldn't give us the 3rd).Final score 31-0. I told PU we could have used that out back in the 1st.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:36pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
You CANNOT call obstruction on a fielder that has the ball.

Whether you can, or should, in this case use rule 10 to rule on a situation not covered in the rulebook (a situation which seems to me to be something that could easily be foreseen by the rulesmakers and thus would be in the rulebook if they wanted it to be against the rules ...) is the issue at hand.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'”

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 12, 2014, 04:46pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Twin Cities MN
Posts: 8,154
The rule book is clear that obstruction can only be called on a fielder who is not in possession of the ball (ISF excepted) who is impeding the progress of the runner.

Putting it another way, impeding the progress of the runner is in the "job description" of a defensive player with the ball.

But, does this legal impeding include grabbing, hooking, tripping, or tackling and THEN making the play on the runner?

I have a hard time with that being the situation intended to be covered by the obstruction rule, but short of using 10-1, it would seem an out is the only call supported by the book.
__________________
Tom
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:43pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1