Catch and Carry

[agr8zebra]

No body out, Runner on 1st base. Batter hits to deep center field. At the collapsible fence the defense catches the near home run ball both feet clearly in fair territory but her momentum carries her through the fence, with her torso laying across the fence from chest to her knees, using her free hand and her glove hand(with the ball) she pushes herself up in dead-ball territory and quickly returns the ball to the infield.

Is this a catch and carry as in NFHS

Rule 8.4.3i?

Here is a link to a video on facebook it may work may not

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...r&notif_t=like

[RKBUmp]

The only thing I can find that is even remotely similar is from an NCAA interpretation with regards to an infield tarp stored in live ball territory. In that interpretation the ruling is the player can lean on the tarp or even lay across it and uses it to their advantage to catch the ball as long as their feet stay on the ground. But, if the player catches the ball and then puts a foot on the tarp it is to be considered a catch and carry.

Again, completely different rule set but it appears they determine the catch and carry to be based on the location of the players feet.

[agr8zebra]

In this case the player completely used her hands and the ball in dead ball territory to remove herself from the fence.

This was a Utah State Championship game with a 3-man crew.

[tcannizzo]

This weekend at the College Club World Series, in Columbus, GA we had exactly that - tarp rollers down the left field fence.

Ground rules were a player can touch the tarp with any part of the body except the foot. Don't know if this is universal, or just at this complex, because the explanation offered was that they didn't want metal cleats tearing up the tarp.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

This weekend at the College Club World Series, in Columbus, GA we had exactly that - tarp rollers down the left field fence.

Ground rules were a player can touch the tarp with any part of the body except the foot. Don't know if this is universal, or just at this complex, because the explanation offered was that they didn't want metal cleats tearing up the tarp.

That's correct and that's the purpose of the "tarp" rule. They don't want players stepping on the tarp with cleats.

[EsqUmp]

Catch.

Defender didn't "enter" dead ball territory.

Ball is live.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

The only thing I can find that is even remotely similar is from an NCAA interpretation with regards to an infield tarp stored in live ball territory. In that interpretation the ruling is the player can lean on the tarp or even lay across it and uses it to their advantage to catch the ball as long as their feet stay on the ground. But, if the player catches the ball and then puts a foot on the tarp it is to be considered a catch and carry.

Again, completely different rule set but it appears they determine the catch and carry to be based on the location of the players feet.

The bolded part has me scratching my head, as I don't believe that's a correct statement. Of course I could be wrong. Do you happen to have a rule reference, A/R or an interpretation you could cite in support? I couldn't find anything in the book or in Dee's interps and A/Rs.

[RKBUmp]

My kid is using my laptop at the moment so can't access the PDF. That comes from an NCAA rules interp PDF I downloaded from somewhere. I will get it for you as soon as I can get computer.

2012 Ask Dee

As to the tarp... unless a team locates it in dead ball territory (ie outside the fence or
within a fenced area) essentially a player can do anything EXCEPT put a foot on it...she can use it to her advantage to make a catch by bracing or leaning...just can't put a foot on it. It is not dead ball territory so she can sprawl on the tarp, make a catch and then get up and throw the ball. If the ball becomes lodged in the tarp, then you do have a dead ball (blocked ball). If you have a catch and then the player puts a foot on the tarp, you have a dead ball (catch and carry).

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Catch.

Defender didn't "enter" dead ball territory.

Ball is live.

I would agree on this. There is a section in the rulebook, which is out in my car, that covers the collapsible fence rules. Since she never completely crossed the fence and was still on the fence, this would be a live ball. Think of it this way. Had she caught the ball over an upright fence, kept a foot on the ground, and leaned over the fence touching with one or both hands what would the call be. The ruling is the same, since she never left live ball territory, she is still in live ball territory.

IIRC their is a casebook play, while not the same, it does cover the collapsible fence rule. A player runs back, pushes on the fence so it is on the ground, stands on it, and makes the catch? The ruling is that it is a catch. In the OP, the player never left contact with the fence, she is still in live ball territory.

[agr8zebra]

The ball completely was used the bal to remove herself from the fence, the being completely in dead ball , non-live ball territiry

The was in dead ball territory

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

The ball completely was used the bal to remove herself from the fence, the being completely in dead ball , non-live ball territiry

The was in dead ball territory

Was the ball in possession of the player? Was the player on the fence? If the player was still on the collapsed fence (even if part of her was not), it is still a live ball territory situation.

Even if the player lands and only her toes are still on the collapsible fence, she has not entered DB territory, thus it is a live ball.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

iirc their is a casebook play, while not the same, it does cover the collapsible fence rule.

iirc?

[agr8zebra]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v...r&notif_t=like

Here is the link to the video on Facebook

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by agr8zebra

The ball completely was used the bal to remove herself from the fence, the being completely in dead ball...

Actually looks like the fielders glove and forearm touch dead ball territory.

NFHS 5-1-1i note d. says "If a fielder contacts dead-ball territory with any part of the body except the foot, she is considered to be out of play." So, yes, should be catch and carry. Having said that no umpire is stationed where the video is filmed. The umpires on the field may not have been able to see contact beyond the fence.

[UmpireErnie]

I'm guessing the runner on 1B hadn't tagged up on the fly ball?