From an association quiz

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

That would be incorrect

IM -

Please explain your logic....

The ball is a fair ball when it is touched. If runners that are on base, make the IF rule applicable, then the rule must be enforced. Runners advance at their own
risk. They run get tagged out = double play ( two outs )....

Am I missing something.....

[Multiple Sports]

Can an administrator also put this on the baseball site with an explanation as to why it was added.

Am curious what fed baseball guys would have....

[NavyChiefBlue]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Can an administrator also put this on the baseball site with an explanation as to why it was added.

Am curious what fed baseball guys would have....

As a baseball guy, I would have 2 outs. IFR does not need to be called, if it is great, if not, sorry, but the situation still warrants it. Runners need to know the rules as well.

Have a great day!

STRIKES AND OUTS!!!

[andyump]

i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by andyump

i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

While this might not apply to the OP, the advice you're being given is wrong (from the top).

Better scenario to illustrate this:

Runners on 1st and 2nd. Typical infield fly to the pitcher, but for whatever reason, not called. Ball drops. F1 picks up, throws to third, F5 throws to 2nd. Double play, because the umps screwed up putting the offense in jeopardy.

This is EXACTLY the scenario where the umpire MUST fix it, call the batter out, and put the runners back on bases.

[nopachunts]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Better scenario to illustrate this: Runners on 1st and 2nd. Typical infield fly to the pitcher, but for whatever reason, not called. Ball drops. F1 picks up, throws to third, F5 throws to 2nd. Double play, because the umps screwed up putting the offense in jeopardy.
This is EXACTLY the scenario where the umpire MUST fix it, call the batter out, and put the runners back on bases.

This is from a baseball game and I know this is the softball side.
This is a scenario that I saw last Friday in a 3A baseball game. The umpires were not from our chapter, thankfully.

Bases loaded, 1 out. Batter hits a high pop up, PU signals IFF, pop fly lands in fair territory about 4' in front of the edge of the infield and rolls across the 1B line, fair ball. As soon as the ball hits the ground, Runner from 3B leaves to score. F3 picks up the ball. The runner on 2B tries to run to 3B but the coach sends him back. While the runner is returning to 2B, F3 throws the ball to F6 covering 2B. F6 catches the throw and touches the base, not the runner. BU calls the runner out for the third out.

I was livid. I don't know how the offensive HC didn't get thrown out. At least the umpires scored the run. These umpires didn't know they had something that needed to be fixed.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by andyump

i am a varsity high school umpire in orange county ny our interp stated to us if neither umpire calls infield field that shame on you and ball is live all runners and batter runner at own risk,

Buy him/her a rule book.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

IM -

Please explain your logic....

The ball is a fair ball when it is touched. If runners that are on base, make the IF rule applicable, then the rule must be enforced. Runners advance at their own
risk. They run get tagged out = double play ( two outs )....

Am I missing something.....

The failure of the umpire to make the ruling in a timely manner placed the runner in jeopardy.

[andyump]

If anyone is a nysso ump they would know in the Manuel on page 41 it states
If the batted ball lands uncaught and the umpires failed to declare an infield fly, the umpires shall not declare and infield fly
Rationale to call infield fly so late would lead. To further confusion
THis is. Nys interpretation not ASA

[Little Jimmy]

Rule 8-2-9 note and casebook 2.30 B ruling seem told support all outs on this play. What rule trumps these?

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Rule 8-2-9 note and casebook 2.30 B ruling seem told support all outs on this play. What rule trumps these?

I think there is a difference between the OP and the discussion about putting a team obviously in jeopardy by not calling he IFF. In the case of the discussed items, the DP resulted from out called as force outs on both runners, when they should not have been forced to advance.

In that case you are putting both teams in jeopardy by not calling the IFF. First, you require runners to advance when they should not be forced to advance. Second, the defense will likely only tag the base for the force out, which is not a legal out since the IFF should have been called. When the DP is two force out plays, the only proper procedure is to negate the penalty both teams would incur, rule the Batter out, and put the runners on the bases they should be on had they not been forced to advance.

This used to be in the casebook somewhere, although I don't recall the location,

This is different from the OP which is a case the runner was off base and was tagged. You can't rightfully put the runner back on a base when it was their mistake that caused them to be off the base because that penalizes the defense which rightfully tagged the runner who was off the base out.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

You can't rightfully put the runner back on a base when it was their mistake that caused them to be off the base because that penalizes the defense which rightfully tagged the runner who was off the base out.

Yeah, you can. If the IF was called, would the runners be more likely to hold the base or leave?

This is brain surgery and the interp isn't new. The umpire ****ed up and you cannot hold either team responsible for your stupidity.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Little Jimmy

Rule 8-2-9 note and casebook 2.30 B ruling seem told support all outs on this play. What rule trumps these?

Generally, NFHS 10-2-3-m, using the wording "rectify any situation" can trump any other. Use of that rule has to be judiciously applied. But, if you judge one team was put in jeopardy as a result of reversing a decision (didn't call the infield fly, applying it retroactively is a reversal), you have the authority and obligation to fix it.

That said, based on the OP (not force outs, just bad baserunning), I have two outs on THAT play. While the thread has morphed, I believe IrishMafia is addressing those that state it will always be a double play if the rule is applied retroactively, not so much the initial post.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

That said, based on the OP (not force outs, just bad baserunning), I have two outs on THAT play. While the thread has morphed, I believe IrishMafia is addressing those that state it will always be a double play if the rule is applied retroactively, not so much the initial post.

I'm going to respectfully disagree with Steve.

What else do you expect runners to do that see the ball roll fair and the umpire has NOT made the appropriate call that protects them? After all, they cannot read what is in the umpire's mind as to whether s/he judges the ball to be catchable with ordinary effort. You may call it dumb base running, I may call it indecision based upon an umpire failure.

IF the umpire does make the call retroactively, I don't believe s/he has a choice than protect BOTH teams.