What should the PU do?

[chapmaja]

Today, during a JV game I notice the home school has a different pitcher pitching in the second inning compared with the first inning. (visitors scored 11 in the first inning) The head coach has said nothing to me about a substitution.

Should I a) approach the coach regarding the new pitcher being in? or b) let it go and hope there is not an illegal substitution going on?

In this case I choose a, and asked the coach if she had made a substitution. It was at this time she indicated it wasn't a substitution, but a position change and the previous pitcher was now playing 1st base.

The only place this really impacts would be the possibility of using a courtesy runner for the pitcher, since we have established that defensive switches are generally not required to be reported to the umpire.

How would you handle this as a PU?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Today, during a JV game I notice the home school has a different pitcher pitching in the second inning compared with the first inning. (visitors scored 11 in the first inning) The head coach has said nothing to me about a substitution.

Should I a) approach the coach regarding the new pitcher being in? or b) let it go and hope there is not an illegal substitution going on?

In this case I choose a, and asked the coach if she had made a substitution. It was at this time she indicated it wasn't a substitution, but a position change and the previous pitcher was now playing 1st base.

The only place this really impacts would be the possibility of using a courtesy runner for the pitcher, since we have established that defensive switches are generally not required to be reported to the umpire.

How would you handle this as a PU?

I tell the coaches at the plate meeting that all Pitching and Catching changes must be reported to me.

Rule 3 Section 3 Article 3
The plate umpire shall record all substitutions on the lineup card
and then announce immediately any change(s) to the opposing team. Projected substitutions are not permitted. Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:
a. a runner takes the place of a runner she has replaced.
b. a pitcher takes her place on the pitcher's plate.
c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder she has replaced.
d. a batter takes her place in the batter's box.
e. and, in each of the above situations, when the ball is declared live by the plate umpire.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Today, during a JV game I notice the home school has a different pitcher pitching in the second inning compared with the first inning. (visitors scored 11 in the first inning) The head coach has said nothing to me about a substitution.

Should I a) approach the coach regarding the new pitcher being in? or b) let it go and hope there is not an illegal substitution going on?

In this case I choose a, and asked the coach if she had made a substitution. It was at this time she indicated it wasn't a substitution, but a position change and the previous pitcher was now playing 1st base.

The only place this really impacts would be the possibility of using a courtesy runner for the pitcher, since we have established that defensive switches are generally not required to be reported to the umpire.

How would you handle this as a PU?

First, I would look at the line-up card and see whether she was already in the game. Mark her as the pitcher on the line-up card and play ball.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

I tell the coaches at the plate meeting that all Pitching and Catching changes must be reported to me.

Rule 3 Section 3 Article 3
The plate umpire shall record all substitutions on the lineup card
and then announce immediately any change(s) to the opposing team. Projected substitutions are not permitted. Should there be no announcement of substitutions, a substitute has entered the game when the ball is live and:
a. a runner takes the place of a runner she has replaced.
b. a pitcher takes her place on the pitcher's plate.
c. a fielder reaches the position usually occupied by the fielder she has replaced.
d. a batter takes her place in the batter's box.
e. and, in each of the above situations, when the ball is declared live by the plate umpire.

It is not a substitution though. It is a defensive position change. A substitution by definition is when a substitute enters the game after not having previously been in the game. rule 3-3-3 does not apply to a defensive position change.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Today, during a JV game I notice the home school has a different pitcher pitching in the second inning compared with the first inning. (visitors scored 11 in the first inning) The head coach has said nothing to me about a substitution.

Should I a) approach the coach regarding the new pitcher being in? or b) let it go and hope there is not an illegal substitution going on?

In this case I choose a, and asked the coach if she had made a substitution. It was at this time she indicated it wasn't a substitution, but a position change and the previous pitcher was now playing 1st base.

The only place this really impacts would be the possibility of using a courtesy runner for the pitcher, since we have established that defensive switches are generally not required to be reported to the umpire.

How would you handle this as a PU?

I handle it the same way you did. Even though the coach doesn't have to report position changes, I will ask him/her who the new pitcher (or catcher) is. To me, it is a little bit of preventive umpiring, just in case this coach is in the habit of failing to report anything, including actual substitutions.

[MD Longhorn]

After the first inning, if you notice a new pitcher or catcher, check your card and note the change if it's simply a defensive change.

[HugoTafurst]

Am I nuts?
Didn't we just have this conversation?

[Insane Blue]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

It is not a substitution though. It is a defensive position change. A substitution by definition is when a substitute enters the game after not having previously been in the game. rule 3-3-3 does not apply to a defensive position change.

Agreed it is not a player substitution but it is a unreported positional substitution (substituted the pitcher with another defensive player in the game) that is covered by using Rule 3-3-3-b

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Agreed it is not a player substitution but it is a unreported positional substitution (substituted the pitcher with another defensive player in the game) that is covered by using Rule 3-3-3-b

Rule 3-3-3b does not apply in this situation. The reason is does not apply is the entire wording of 3-3-3. The key portion is ..... "a substitute has entered the game when

b. a pitcher takes his her position on the pitchers plate.


We need to go to rule 2-57-1 which define a substitute:

A substitute is a player who is NOT LISTED on the lineup as a starter but who may legally replace a starting player. ........


In the OP, the player who came in to pitch was listed on the line, therefore she was not a substitute for the pitcher, so 3-3-3b does not apply.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Insane Blue

Agreed it is not a player substitution but it is a unreported positional substitution...

No such animal, IB. When players switch position, it's nothing more than a defensive change. Only in NCAA ball does that require reporting and, if not, is treated the same as an unreported defensive substitution.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Am I nuts?

Don't make me answer that....

[HugoTafurst]

:d

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

don't make me answer that....:d

:d