Just one of those nights.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

Do not get in the habit of talking to the players. No good comes of it.

What's more likely to happen:

1- "oh, yeah, the umpire DID tell me already to take the nose ring out, coach."

2- "He said, it's okay...you can play with it since you can't take it out."

3- "He never told me anything about it."

You think she's going to be honest? I'd say 1 is least likely.

Just tell the coach at the pregame. If it's seen, you restrict to dugout.

You are stating that if you tell the coach at the pre-game that a player has jewelry on and then in the game you see it on you can restrict to the dug out at that time.

You are DEAD WRONG on this. When a player is illegally equipped in the game, the team shall be issued a warning.

There is a casebook play which somewhat illustrates this ruling. 3-2-12 Sit. D

The comment indicates: The jewelry rule only applies to players in the game, not on the bench.

At the time of the pre-game conference, there were no players in the game, because the game had not begun yet.

You can't penalize a player on the bench during the game if you see them with jewelry on either. They can't be penalized until they are in the game, at which time a violation has occurred.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

You are stating that if you tell the coach at the pre-game that a player has jewelry on and then in the game you see it on you can restrict to the dug out at that time.

You are DEAD WRONG on this. When a player is illegally equipped in the game, the team shall be issued a warning.

There is a casebook play which somewhat illustrates this ruling. 3-2-12 Sit. D

The comment indicates: The jewelry rule only applies to players in the game, not on the bench.

At the time of the pre-game conference, there were no players in the game, because the game had not begun yet.

You can't penalize a player on the bench during the game if you see them with jewelry on either. They can't be penalized until they are in the game, at which time a violation has occurred.

You said "He(re) comes the CR, who is wearing a nose ring (which I had asked her to take out before the game when she handed me a bat to check."

Why ask her, under your argument to me, to take it out if she's not playing?

No I wouldn't restrict - I'd follow the rule, which is to warn. But I'd handle the whole thing differently - starting with not relaying any messages through the players themselves.

Let me clarify. You call the coaches and captains out - the captain of the team comes out wearing studded earrings and a nose ring. You ask the coaches if their team is legally and properly equipped and if all equipment is safe and legal. You then remind coaches and captains that there is to be absolutely no jewelry in the game under Fed rules, like the captain #25 is currently wearing. "Right coach?????????????" (As I look at the nose ring)

If they are listed on the starting lineup, they should be ready to play, and come to the pre game meeting prepared to play - with no jewelry. If they are a sub, they should be prepared to come on the field (They need to be "legally and properly equipped"). They're not required to take out the jewelry if they're sitting on the bench, but they should be ready to play if called upon. If that means take out the jewelry, then do it. They know this rule. It's in EVERY Fed game they play.

You yourself made note that "The jewelry wearing player was brought to the attention of the coach, and the coach thought she had taken it out. It was also brought up at the coaches meeting as well because she was one of the team captains." (She's a captain. She SHOULD know better.) So how many "reminders" do they need here??? Did you not already say something 2 times about the same player? I know it's not a formal warning yet though, but really coach???????

Here's the issue. You saw this girl with the nose ring before the game 2 times. You told her 2 times. You told the coach. She comes out on the field ready to play with it in. How many times do you need to say it before these players do it?

If we tell just the coach, instead of worrying about telling the player, we then can impose penalties that are necessitated by the rules rather than having to have the "reminder" carousel go on as much as it did.

It's just my opinion, but when I saw the nose ring prior to the game, I would have told the coach that #25 had a nose ring that MUST come out if she's playing. At the pregame, I then would have asked the coach to verify that his players were legally and properly equipped, and when I saw the nose ring again at pregame, I would have told the coach AGAIN, this time more sternly - reminding them of the penalties for jewelry wearing during the game. And I'm pretty certain that #25 would NOT have come on the field with the nose ring in her nose in the third inning, since I didn't tell the reminder twice over to some 14 year old child. I talked to the responsible adult who can be held liable for the team's actions or inactions.


Just my feeling on it. But I could be wrong. It won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by LIUmp

You said "He(re) comes the CR, who is wearing a nose ring (which I had asked her to take out before the game when she handed me a bat to check."

Why ask her, under your argument to me, to take it out if she's not playing?

No I wouldn't restrict - I'd follow the rule, which is to warn. But I'd handle the whole thing differently - starting with not relaying any messages through the players themselves.

Let me clarify. You call the coaches and captains out - the captain of the team comes out wearing studded earrings and a nose ring. You ask the coaches if their team is legally and properly equipped and if all equipment is safe and legal. You then remind coaches and captains that there is to be absolutely no jewelry in the game under Fed rules, like the captain #25 is currently wearing. "Right coach?????????????" (As I look at the nose ring)

If they are listed on the starting lineup, they should be ready to play, and come to the pre game meeting prepared to play - with no jewelry. If they are a sub, they should be prepared to come on the field (They need to be "legally and properly equipped"). They're not required to take out the jewelry if they're sitting on the bench, but they should be ready to play if called upon. If that means take out the jewelry, then do it. They know this rule. It's in EVERY Fed game they play.

You yourself made note that "The jewelry wearing player was brought to the attention of the coach, and the coach thought she had taken it out. It was also brought up at the coaches meeting as well because she was one of the team captains." (She's a captain. She SHOULD know better.) So how many "reminders" do they need here??? Did you not already say something 2 times about the same player? I know it's not a formal warning yet though, but really coach???????

Here's the issue. You saw this girl with the nose ring before the game 2 times. You told her 2 times. You told the coach. She comes out on the field ready to play with it in. How many times do you need to say it before these players do it?

If we tell just the coach, instead of worrying about telling the player, we then can impose penalties that are necessitated by the rules rather than having to have the "reminder" carousel go on as much as it did.

It's just my opinion, but when I saw the nose ring prior to the game, I would have told the coach that #25 had a nose ring that MUST come out if she's playing. At the pregame, I then would have asked the coach to verify that his players were legally and properly equipped, and when I saw the nose ring again at pregame, I would have told the coach AGAIN, this time more sternly - reminding them of the penalties for jewelry wearing during the game. And I'm pretty certain that #25 would NOT have come on the field with the nose ring in her nose in the third inning, since I didn't tell the reminder twice over to some 14 year old child. I talked to the responsible adult who can be held liable for the team's actions or inactions.


Just my feeling on it. But I could be wrong. It won't be the first time and it won't be the last.

Whatever happens prior to the game is exactly that, prior to the game. There is no penalty that can be assessed for having jewelry on prior to the game, even at the plate conference. The only time anything can be done is once the game has started. Everything done prior to the game started is PREVENTATIVE UMPIRING, as in trying to prevent the action from happening.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by chapmaja

Whatever happens prior to the game is exactly that, prior to the game. There is no penalty that can be assessed for having jewelry on prior to the game, even at the plate conference. The only time anything can be done is once the game has started. Everything done prior to the game started is PREVENTATIVE UMPIRING, as in trying to prevent the action from happening.

And how successful were you?

I know you can't impose penalties in NFHS at that point. I'm just saying that your partner, the plate umpire (who would rather laugh than manage this game) and you could have done more to be "preventative". And it starts with talking to the coach and not the player. Or at the very LEAST, talk to the player in the presence of the head coach.

Just MHO.