is it endless?

[Manny A]

The problem is, we have too many colleagues in the trade that will acquiesce to a coach's request to go to a partner for help, so it's expected as the norm. They need to get a pair (no disrespect to the lady umpires) and tell the coach, "Don't need help, coach. I'm right on top of the play."

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The problem is, we have too many colleagues in the trade that will acquiesce to a coach's request to go to a partner for help, so it's expected as the norm. They need to get a pair (no disrespect to the lady umpires) and tell the coach, "Don't need help, coach. I'm right on top of the play."

Or simply ask the coach "Did you see something that I might have missed?"

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Or simply ask the coach "Did you see something that I might have missed?"

My response is a bit different; in my mind, your question has a likely answer the coach will consider cute ("Yes, the play (or call)") that I don't want to set up on the tee.

I ask "What specificially would you like me to ask my partner?" Depending on that reply, my next line is "Here is what I can ask: 1) Did she pull or not pull her foot? 2) Did she bobble or not bobble the ball? 3) Did your angle show a clearly missed tag, or did you see (or hear) an obvious tag I didn't. Unless I have already indicated I know I was blocked or had the wrong position or angle for how this play developed (or NCAA required 'help' at first or third on a pickoff), I cannot ask if my partner has a different judgment as to if the runner beat the throw (or tag) or vice versa; nor can my partner make me unsee what I saw, because the rulebook and manual are clear that this is my call, and judgment calls cannot be overturned by another umpire. So, with those guidelines, what do you want me to ask my partner?"

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

My response is a bit different; in my mind, your question has a likely answer the coach will consider cute ("Yes, the play (or call)") that I don't want to set up on the tee.

I ask "What specificially would you like me to ask my partner?" Depending on that reply, my next line is "Here is what I can ask: 1) Did she pull or not pull her foot? 2) Did she bobble or not bobble the ball? 3) Did your angle show a clearly missed tag, or did you see (or hear) an obvious tag I didn't. Unless I have already indicated I know I was blocked or had the wrong position or angle for how this play developed (or NCAA required 'help' at first or third on a pickoff), I cannot ask if my partner has a different judgment as to if the runner beat the throw (or tag) or vice versa; nor can my partner make me unsee what I saw, because the rulebook and manual are clear that this is my call, and judgment calls cannot be overturned by another umpire. So, with those guidelines, what do you want me to ask my partner?"

Naah, too wordy.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Or simply ask the coach "Did you see something that I might have missed?"

My question back to the coach is "Why are you asking me to go for help?"

If the response is along the lines of, "I think my player beat the throw" or anything else that is basically disagreeing with my call, I respond with a shortened version of Steve's post...

Coach, just becuase you don't like the call is not a valid reason for me to consult with my partner(s). Let's play ball.

[Reffing Rev.]

First request - brief statement of fact.

Second request - "Coach, what FACT do you think my partner witnessed that I did not, or are you questioning my judgment, if the latter, then the rules dictate the next course of action."

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The problem is, we have too many colleagues in the trade that will acquiesce to a coach's request to go to a partner for help, so it's expected as the norm. They need to get a pair (no disrespect to the lady umpires) and tell the coach, "Don't need help, coach. I'm right on top of the play."

Did that Saturday, after telling him I could see the hand in that probably was blocked by the body from his dugout. After the game, the coach thanked me for talking about it.

[teebob21]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The problem is, we have too many colleagues in the trade that will acquiesce to a coach's request to go to a partner for help, so it's expected as the norm. They need to get a pair (no disrespect to the lady umpires) and tell the coach, "Don't need help, coach. I'm right on top of the play."

I have been guilty of this. I've gone for help too quickly when I was only 98% sure I'd made the right call, rather than 100%.

I've gotten better. Now I say NO if I'm in position, had a good angle, and am reasonable certain of what I've seen. And to parrot Andy, I make the coach tell me why they want the help and what they saw. If it's judgment only, nice talking to you but let's play ball.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by teebob21

I have been guilty of this. I've gone for help too quickly when I was only 98% sure I'd made the right call, rather than 100%.

I've gotten better. Now I say NO if I'm in position, had a good angle, and am reasonable certain of what I've seen. And to parrot Andy, I make the coach tell me why they want the help and what they saw. If it's judgment only, nice talking to you but let's play ball.

I have no problem going to a partner if the coach has a specific question about something I possibly missed, and I know they may have had a better view than I did. I will not hesitate to give a coach 1 "ask" in a game with little substance, but if they want more than 1, they better have a specific reason.

I also tend to go to my partner more than many umpires anyway because I really feel we need to make sure we get all calls right. If there is any question in my mind, I will make a call, then when play ends, go to my partner. 99.9% of the time I saw things the same way. On occasion he/she will have additional information which will result in a changed call, but it is rare.