Moving the bat

[RKBUmp]

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Safely, carefully and cautiously remove the bat.

It is more reasonable and prudent for a trained adult to do this than an amateur athlete.

Forget the 5 lines of BS that the old guard tells you. They lack common sense, legal intelligence and normal standards of care. The arguments they put forth are nonsense that has been passed down to them over the years and they have done a disservice to all by perpetuating such illogical and unreasonable thinking.

Wrong in spades.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Not once have I ever had a single issue removing the bat. So why not remove it?

21 years... and I've never ever had a single issue stem from my leaving the bat alone. So why not leave it alone?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

Does the ODB's discarded bat(s) become part of the field? I.E. She drops the bat in the circle to move towards HP to direct a runner.

If a thrown ball hits that bat or a fielder trips on that bat while retrieving a loose ball, does it warrant a blocked ball and/or interference call?

Thanx.

From the NCAA book:

"9.8 Equipment Blocked Ball
9.8.1 No loose equipment (that is, gloves/mitts, hats, helmets, jackets, balls, on-deck batter’s bats), miscellaneous items, or detached parts of a player’s uniform, other than that being legally used in the game at the time, should be within playable territory as it could cause a blocked ball. Official equipment that may be within playable territory with no effect includes the batter’s bat, the catcher’s mask or helmet, umpire paraphernalia, and any helmet that has inadvertently fallen off the head of an offensive or defensive player during the course of play."

So, at least in NCAA play, an ODB's warm-up bat lying in the circle is specifically listed as loose equipment and may be liable for a blocked ball call.

As for ASA, Rule Supplement #17 specifically states what is not considered loose equipment:

"Official equipment which may be in live ball territory with no penalty includes the batter's bat, the catcher's mask, umpire paraphernalia, a helmet which has inadvertently fallen off an offensive or defensive player during play or any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game."

It could be inferred from that statement that the ODB's warm-up bat is considered loose equipment, since it's not listed as official equipment, unless the vagueness of "any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game" allows for that interpretation. Frankly, I have no idea what that last clause means.

NFHS is even more vague. 1-8-3 only mentions the batter's discarded bat and the catcher's helmet/mask as examples of equipment not considered loose.

Bottom line: I would considered a warm-up bat on the ground as loose equipment in FED and ASA play. The ODB should be able to hang on to it during the course of play.

[Tru_in_Blu]

Thanx, Manny. Excellent summary. I'm gonna copy/paste that because I know I won't be able to find it again in 6 months when I need it!

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

Here is what we say about bat removal. I apologize ahead of time if this level of common sense offends anyone's sensibilities.

BAT REMOVAL
• After hitting a ball, a batter may drop her bat into a position near home plate that might subsequently interfere with a play at the plate. When possible, umpires may safely, carefully and cautiously remove a bat without interfering with play.
• Three criteria should be used in deciding whether to clear the bat:
• Is it necessary? If there is a possibility of a play at the plate, you must
determine....
• Is the bat available? If the bat is close enough and you can get it, you must
then determine...
• Is it possible? Is it possible to get the bat, move it and get back into proper
position for the ensuing play at the plate?
• If the answer to all three questions is "Yes," then clear the bat.
• The proper technique for clearing the bat will allow you to keep an eye on your responsibilities and move the bat safely away from the immediate area of the plate. When grapping the bat, keep your head up and watch the runner round 3rd base. There is always the possibility of a missed base, obstruction, or a coach's assist.
• Grab the bat firmly with your hand, point the handle or barrel toward foul territory and slide the bat along the ground. The bat should never leave the ground.
• Slide the bat far enough so that it cannot be in the way, including if players adjust. Sliding the bat rather than picking it up and throwing it also minimizes risk of injury to an on-deck hitter who may be coaching the approaching runner.

Pretty thorough. Which organization published that?

I think it again comes down to "when in Rome".

As far as the groups and clinics I've been to, the subject either has NOT been specifically addressed our the advice was to leave it alone.

To be honest, I think it is more the concern for appearance of favoritism (which like it ir not I have seen under the silliest of circumstances), than it is the safety issue.
The bat is legally there and its being there our not being there can affect the play. If you move it, you have given one team an advantage (possibly).

That's my take.
If I find myself worrying for the people who wrote that directive, I'll consider moving the bat.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

yes

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

yes

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

[Rich Ives]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

It broke when you dropped it, not when I moved it.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I think that is the point...

I think earlier, someone, referring to his preference for removing the bat stated:

At least YOU were paying attention.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

21 years... and I've never ever had a single issue stem from my leaving the bat alone. So why not leave it alone?

That's 41 years of no problems combined with just the two of us. And countless thousands of hours.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Break my catcher's mask and you can pay for it, sir.

Give me a break. I really hope you're joking. PS: Tell your catcher she can't drop her equipment and obstruct the runner.

[EsqUmp]

Gotta love it:

For the most part, people are advocating leaving the bat alone, saying they have never had a problem. I'm not sure how they are defining "problem" but I'll take their word for it.

What I'm saying is that I know thousands of umpires who move the bat and none of us have had a "problem." Unless you consider someone saying, "thanks for getting the bat out of the way" a problem.

So why are those who don't move the bat so adamant that those who do move it are wrong? Is it a "that's baseball" argument? I love that one.

Why don't you all ask your associations to put it in writing NOT to move the bat? I can't wait for someone to say that not everything has to be put in a rule book or a manual. After all, it's not like ASA kills trees telling us to make sure we keep a stand-by plumber and electrician

[charliej47]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

Now what about the catchers helmet which is generally laying somewhere in the general vacinity also? You going to move it too?

There have been times when I have kicked the helmet out of the way.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

So why are those who don't move the bat so adamant that those who do move it are wrong?

Besides the other common sense issues, simply because is it not why the umpire is there. No matter how you want to pose it, if the umpire needs to do anything which draws their attention away from the game they are umpiring, it is something the umpire shouldn't be doing.

The players are there to play their game on their field with their equipment, let them play the game on their field with their equipment.

Then there is always the question of why is the PU hanging around the plate while there is an on-going play.