More players who don't know the rules

Bluefoot · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 08:11am

Men's ASA SP game. R1 on 1B, no outs. B2 hits medium-deep flyball to left-center field. Ball is caught by F8, then R1 legally tags up and runs halfway to 2B. R1 then stops and retreats back toward 1B. F8 throws ball to F6, who tries to throw ball to F3 at 1B, but throws the ball out of play. I am PU. I've called B2 out and award R1 3B. Defensive team and coaches on bench go nuts and want to know why R1 gets two bases. Some of their comments included, "It's two bases on a throw from the outfield and only one on a throw from the infield" and also "but the runner was already going back to first". I asked them to cite the rules that they were talking about. I told them it's 2 bases on overthrows from the runner's position at the time the ball leaves the thrower's hand, and that 1B plus 2 equals 3B. They still did not get it. Then I saw the men on the bench pull out a current rule book and they shut up soon after - it was almost comical.

This same team's pitcher also could not understand why he could not quick-pitch every pitch on every batter, and why I would grant time to opposing batters who requested it. Unbelievable.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - they also believed they get 5 warmup pitches in the first inning.

How can veteran players not now the basic rules? Could it be because their games' umpires in the past have not known or not followed/applied the correct rules?

IRISHMAFIA · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 09:23am

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluefoot
Men's ASA SP game. R1 on 1B, no outs. B2 hits medium-deep flyball to left-center field. Ball is caught by F8, then R1 legally tags up and runs halfway to 2B. R1 then stops and retreats back toward 1B. F8 throws ball to F6, who tries to throw ball to F3 at 1B, but throws the ball out of play. I am PU. I've called B2 out and award R1 3B. Defensive team and coaches on bench go nuts and want to know why R1 gets two bases. Some of their comments included, "It's two bases on a throw from the outfield and only one on a throw from the infield" and also "but the runner was already going back to first". I asked them to cite the rules that they were talking about. I told them it's 2 bases on overthrows from the runner's position at the time the ball leaves the thrower's hand, and that 1B plus 2 equals 3B. They still did not get it. Then I saw the men on the bench pull out a current rule book and they shut up soon after - it was almost comical.

This same team's pitcher also could not understand why he could not quick-pitch every pitch on every batter, and why I would grant time to opposing batters who requested it. Unbelievable.

Oh yeah, almost forgot - they also believed they get 5 warmup pitches in the first inning.

How can veteran players not now the basic rules? Could it be because their games' umpires in the past have not known or not followed/applied the correct rules?

That's usually what makes me "the worst umpire in the world" on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I always have to tell them that "last night's umpire" received a bad rating and lost games for allowing them to get away with that "stuff".

In my area, the players don't want to run out home runs, don't want to be bothered with uniforms and cry like the dickens when you ask them for a line up prior to the game. Personally, I end up wondering why they want an umpire out there since they really don't want to play the game by the rules. But make the perfect call by the book, and you are terrible because the guy last night......

greymule · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 11:44am

I hate to fill in for somebody in a league in which the umpires have made only ball/strike and safe/out calls and enforced no rules whatsoever.

The players think the batters can start with their foot behind the back line and then run halfway to the mound and hit the ball. They think the pitcher can start his motion as he is walking toward the rubber and deliver the ball just as he places his foot on it. And, as happened last night, the second-baseman can fail to touch the bag as long as he stands within three feet of it. High pitches? "You're the first guy all year who . . ."

I saw a game not long ago in which one player kept his uniform shirt not only outside his pants, but also fully unbuttoned. When he ran around the bases, he looked like Batman. The hat he had on backwards was a tasteful sartorial complement.

whiskers_ump · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 12:52pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

"That's usually what makes me "the worst umpire in the world" on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I always have to tell them that "last night's umpire" received a bad rating and lost games for allowing them to get away with that "stuff".

Mike,

Can I borrow this line. Great response.

glen

IRISHMAFIA · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 01:31pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by whiskers_ump

Quote:

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

"That's usually what makes me "the worst umpire in the world" on a regular basis. Unfortunately, I always have to tell them that "last night's umpire" received a bad rating and lost games for allowing them to get away with that "stuff".

Mike,

Can I borrow this line. Great response.

glen

Feel free. Of course, get ready for the blank stares from the players. It might take a few innings to sink in.

CecilOne · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 01:40pm

That's assuming you can find the ratings.

One of the best things about this forum is finding out that the elite are also "the worst" and they are also the first to call it. Yeah, right!

CecilOne · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluefoot
... snip ... Oh yeah, almost forgot - they also believed they get 5 warmup pitches in the first inning.
... snip ...

That one is mostly an umpire problem. Has anyone actually awarded the "ball"?

IRISHMAFIA · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by CecilOne

Quote:

Originally posted by Bluefoot
... snip ... Oh yeah, almost forgot - they also believed they get 5 warmup pitches in the first inning.
... snip ...

That one is mostly an umpire problem. Has anyone actually awarded the "ball"?

Well, you should know by now as anal as I am, yes I have awarded a ball to batters. However, this happens only when I tell the catcher to get rid of the ball, call for the batter and bend over to brush the plate. It wasn't as if there was no warning that the permissible warm-ups were complete.

greymule · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:18pm

After a tournament game last year, a pitcher told me that my strike zone was the worst he had seen in 22 years of pitching slow pitch. (His team lost that game 22-7.)

I noticed on the bracket sheet later that his team lost their second game, too, which knocked them out of the double-elim tourney. That score was 19-4.

You can be sure that my strike zone (and the next guy's) cost them a trophy.

Around here, probably elsewhere too, there's a term to refer to such teams: two and 'cue (lose 2 and then barbecue).

jxt127 · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 02:36pm

Doing a 3-pitch tournament semi-final this summer. Two out R1 on first. Batter hits grounder to F4. R1 seeing the tag attempt coming stops and backs a step. F4 drops the ball as he is trying to tag. R1 promptly runs around him.

Now the fun starts. F3 F4 and F9 are all arguing at the BU that R1 is out for backing up. The BU is having none of that argument. I'm standing just up the 1st base line watching R1 touch the bags as he comes around to score. Still arguing. Finally the defence notices that the runners are running. The throw home is just a little late to catch the BR.

The ensuing discussion was colourful to say the least. The entire defence team as well as most of the spectators and not a few of the offensive team, are adamant that the R1 is out, "everyone calls it that way". They appeal to me (not as PU but as the UIC for the league. No dice guys good call 2 runs score. I get a For ***** sake just admit ump that you don't know the rules! from the bench.

Next day I send them a copy of the case book play (identical play) showing that the runner is allowed to back up to avoid the tag). Sigh.

If nothing else the entertainment value can be high in AA softball.

greymule · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 03:07pm

I've seen umps call runners (other than the BR) out for running backward on a force play. It is of course the wrong call.

Say, jxt127: Colourful? Defence?

I hope you gave those chaps a good dressing down when you saw them next.

Cheerio!

What is 3-pitch anyway, a British variation?

jxt127 · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Aug 15, 2003, 04:01pm

I blame it all on being Canadian with a British step-mom. I tried to get the wife to move to San Antonio a few years ago but alas no way would she go.

3-Pitch is a slo-pitch variant where the offence provides the pitcher and there is a a max of 3 pitches per batter. If the batted ball hits the pitcher in essence it's a foul ball, unless of course the pitcher touched the ball deliberately in which case the batter is out. Fair balls hit in the air over the outfield fence (otherwise known as Home Runs) are outs.

They have another tournament starting tonight. Fortunately it's also baseball playoffs and I am umpiring those instead.

Had a great time last night. The catcher absolutely could not catch and I got hit at least a dozen times. Ahh well at least they don't throw all that hard and at least they stopped tossing those bats straight back over F2 like at the beginning of the season. This winter's mission will be to buy better gear than the league provides.

Have fun out there.
john

Bluefoot · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 16, 2003, 07:29am

I've had to call a ball on a fourth warmup pitch earlier this year. New pitcher came in at the start of an inning, for another team that complained during the whole game about actual rules being enforced. After his third warmup pitch, I saw that he was going to throw more. I said, "That's it, you get 3 warmup pitches." Pitcher says, "What - you gotta a date?" Then continues to throws his fourth. I said, "Yes, I do have a date, that's ball one, and batter up."

ChampaignBlue · #14 (**permalink**) Sat Aug 16, 2003, 06:58pm

I had a pitcher that I called a ball on this year because for the 2nd inning in a row his shortstop was last, by a bunch, to run on the field. I called "batter", he stepped in the box and I told the pitcher to bring a pitch, he didn't and I called a ball at which point the SS came running on the field and play went on. At the half inning the pitcher tried to tell me his SS was having "intestinal" problems. I responded that I was suprized that the young lady that he was sitting next to in the bleachers hadn't gotten up and moved then if he was taking care of his "intestinal" problems in the bleachers next to her. "Oh, you saw that huh?"

They really do believe that we are blind.