Good call?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by TexBlue
But, then, how does the offense know what to do? You are handicapping them by not letting them know the situation. Do they just stop running and hope the umpire gives them the correct number of bases. Or, worse, that they even saw the obstruction. By not signalling, you are giving the advantage to the defense, who committed the obstruction in the 1st place. To me, this just puts the offense in a no win situation.

Interesting argument, but how about the offense just uses good base running judgment just like they would any other time, and then depends on the umpire to award as necessary once the play is over.

Otherwise, you are cheating the offense out of a possible base award because you decided the award too soon.

Sometimes you can judge the base award right away, but not in the general case. You will have a preliminary judgment on the award, but it is only preliminary until the play completes. You should let the play complete and then make any necessary adjustment to the judgment on the base award.

[bluejay]

Notice what John said in his last post. He was watching the runner and not the umpire to see if he gave a delayed dead ball signal. Guess what. Neither was any one else watching the umpire for a signal. Only the smartest coaches in upper level ball are watching either. They watch the runner or the ball and only look for the umpire when the play is over.
I agree with Dakota. Show the delayed dead ball signal and then drop it. Running around the infield with your arm out looks kind of funny any way.
I also agree with another post in this thread that you can not decide on how far to protect until the play is over. Say a runner is bumped or slightly obstructed rounding first base on a hit to the out field and then is tagged out on a bang bang play at third. If the umpire decides he will protect only to second (and considering nothing else wierd happened on the play), how can the runner be called out at third if the obstruction kept him from arriving safely. I know this is not the way Oklahoma City teaches but it sure makes more sense to me.

[Tap]

I agree with Andy's comments on the award and Dakota's comments on mechanics. The arm is up long enough for the players to realize the umpire saw something, but the umpire need not run around w/ the arm up.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by bluejay

I agree with Dakota. Show the delayed dead ball signal and then drop it. Running around the infield with your arm out looks kind of funny any way.
I also agree with another post in this thread that you can not decide on how far to protect until the play is over. Say a runner is bumped or slightly obstructed rounding first base on a hit to the out field and then is tagged out on a bang bang play at third. If the umpire decides he will protect only to second (and considering nothing else wierd happened on the play), how can the runner be called out at third if the obstruction kept him from arriving safely. I know this is not the way Oklahoma City teaches but it sure makes more sense to me.

How to rule on an obstruction cannot be generalized and must be handled on a play-by-play basis.

For example, if a player is obstructed rounding 1B while the ball is dropped in the OF. If OF recovers and throws the ball in, I've got it in my mind I'm protecting the runner to 2B. So, the player pulls into 2B as the throw is cut-off by F4. In his eagerness to check the runner, F4 turns quickly and drops the ball. The runner (Superman in mind, D ballplayer in fact) decides to make a dash for 3B. I am not protecting that runner to 3B.

Now, same play, just this time the OF cannot get a grip on the ball and makes a very weak throw to the IF. Same runner hesitates at 2B, but sees the bobble and continues to 3B. It is a good possibility that I will protect this runner to 3B since the OF bobbled the ball and showed no sign of getting it into the IF in a timely fashion, I could not make a judgment until I saw the play develop.

[CecilOne]

It's inconsistent to say drop the arm after allowing the players or coaches to see it or hear the verbal; and also to say that no one is watching the umpire until afterward. The signal is for the DDB, not the obstruction as such. Obstruction is called when it happens and the delay of the ball being dead continues until the play ends (or runner tagged, etc.).

If you drop the signal and then return to it after the play it looks like you are waiting to see which team is favored or whether it matters at all. It might even help if your partner has time to see it. Mike's examples show very clearly why we can't predetermine how far to "protect", let alone what the players will do.

Like many other plays we talk about, it's up to the players/coaches to know what is going on and run or stop accordingly.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Here's what it comes down to: players and coaches should never stop playing based on the presumption an umpire saw or didn't see an infraction or the assumption THEY can predetermine how an umpire will judge the actions of others.

A coach or runner who assumes that they can run until caught believing the umpire will not rule them out is preposterous and a bit stupid.

As umpires, we should not place so much emphasis on ourselves. See the play, apply any special rulings to the play and make the call. If teams operate under some notion that it is up to US to protect THEM from THEIR shortcomings or misinterpretations of the rules, they are going to have a problem, but that doesn't make it the umpire's problem.

Whether you hold the arm up the entire play or not, the fact that you made the determination is enough. The signal is not only for the participants, but also your partner and spectators. Trust me, the moment a runner is obstructed, half the offensive team is going to scream "interference" and look at the umpire. If you have the arm up at that point, they will see it and you will likely hear someone say, "he's got it".

It is now up to the offense to continue NORMAL play. If the choose to try to stretch the play, that is their problem and if they know the rules as well as they believe they do, they will also know their runner is no longer protected.

[Dakota]

Mike said what I was trying to say, only much better!