Fun with Rules

[IRISHMAFIA]

ASA:

Infield: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes the area normally covered by infielders.

Bunt: A pitched ball that is intentionally tapped with the bat slowly in the infield

7.6 Batter Is Out
G (Fast Pitch) When the batter bunts foul after the second strike. If the ball is caught before touching the ground, it remains live.
H (Slow Pitch) When the batter bunts or chops the ball.

So if a bunt must be fair, how can G ever come into effect? And in H, if the ball goes foul is it still considered a bunt?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

ASA:

Infield: That portion of the field in fair territory that includes the area normally covered by infielders.

Bunt: A pitched ball that is intentionally tapped with the bat slowly in the infield

7.6 Batter Is Out
G (Fast Pitch) When the batter's attempted bunt is ruled foul after the second strike. If the ball is caught before touching the ground, it remains live.
H (Slow Pitch) When the batter's attempted bunt contacts the ball or the batter chops the ball....

Happy now?

[Tru_in_Blu]

4-1-A A team must have the required number of players present in the dugout or team area to start or continue a game.

E.G. FP minimum = 9

4-1-D-1 To start a game:
a. A game may begin with one less than required to start.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

4-1-A A team must have the required number of players present in the dugout or team area to start or continue a game.

E.G. FP minimum = 9

4-1-D-1 To start a game:
a. A game may begin with one less than required to start.

That's correct, have to have nine in the line-up. One just happens to be an out if there is eligible player's name in the spot

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Dakota

Happy now?

If that was the way the rule was written, but......

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

...a. A game may begin with one less than required to start.

I like that statement all by itself. Go around that enough times, and you can start the game with no players at all!

[Tru_in_Blu]

Not a rule, exactly. More mechanics related.

I was in a discussion regarding fly ball coverage prompted by question 42 on this year's ASA Umpire Exam. I usually pre-game the scenario of a lone runner on 2B w/ my partner. Unless BU goes out, PU takes fair/foul, catch/no catch. BU will take tag up at 2B, and PU will take any play on the tagging runner at third (and subsequently home, if that develops).

In reading through the mechanics and responsibilities, I've always assumed that references to lead runner referred to the runner's placement prior to the pitch. And, that there is specific reference to the batter-runner unless the live ball is getting thrown all over the field allowing subsequent plays to occur (thus the reference to "last runner to 3B").

In trying to verify references, I came across the following passages from this year's Umpire Manual. The sections from fast pitch and slow pitch seem to have be written by different people given the scenarios listed and wording.

Pg 246
There are four times, after the ball has been batted, that a base umpire will make a call at third base:
...
3. On a lone runner on a fly ball advancement.

Two Umpire System

Runner on second base only - Fast pitch
Pg 259
Fly ball to the outfield:
P - Move out from behind the plate to get the best angle and distance possible. Responsible for fair / foul, catch or no catch, any play on the lead runner at 3B, and any play at the plate.
B - Choose to go to the outfield to make the call or hustle inside the diamond toward 1B, buttonhook, pick up the ball and glance at the runner. Responsible for the tag up at 2B, any play at 1B, or 2B and the last runner to 3B.

Slow pitch

Runner on 2B only, 1B & 2B, 2B & 3B or bases loaded:
Pgs 265, 266
Fly ball coverage:
P- Move out from behind the plate in foul ground to get the best angle and distance possible. Responsible for fair / foul, catch or no-catch, any play on the lead runner(s) at 3B and any play at the plate.
B - You must decide whether to go to the outfield to make the call or button hook inside the diamond about half way between 1B and 2B, pick up the ball and glance at the runner. Responsible for the tag up at 1B and/or 2B, any play at 1B or 2B and the last runner to third base.

So from the first reference on Pg 246, is a "lone runner" considered a lead runner. Especially in the slow pitch game, it's going to be a tough call for BU w/ lone runner on 2B and a shallow line drive caught by F10. Any runner who will even consider tagging up on this play is guaranteed faster than me!

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

So from the first reference on Pg 246, is a "lone runner" considered a lead runner. Especially in the slow pitch game, it's going to be a tough call for BU w/ lone runner on 2B and a shallow line drive caught by F10. Any runner who will even consider tagging up on this play is guaranteed faster than me!

But you don't usually need to be on the line and do not have to move the entire distance.

Need to hustle? Absolutely. Difficulty covering the play? Not really

[shagpal]

wasn't this supposed to be "FUN"?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

wasn't this supposed to be "FUN"?

The fun is finding potential conflicts and/or issues.

I agree with Ted that there are quite a few holes in the mechanics that developed after the first DVD was produced. The DVD, while a good idea for training, has actually caused as many problems as it addressed.

The fun part is challenging the UIC or partner who tells you one thing when the book says another

Problem is that too many instructors and NUS members took the DVD as the new "bible" (supervisor's word) and any deviation, necessary to cover the play or not, would/will draw a gig on evaluation. Or just the opposite, a UIC so old or removed from actual games and encrusted in the old ways, hitting an umpire for not doing things that hadn't been in the manual for years.

NUS needs to be infused by more younger umpires, but because they are dedicated to the brand of umpiring they represent. not because a group of non-umpires determined they would represent the region as they see fit.

[shagpal]

Irish, hava beer.

I'm just having fun.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

The fun is finding potential conflicts and/or issues.

I agree with Ted that there are quite a few holes in the mechanics that developed after the first DVD was produced. The DVD, while a good idea for training, has actually caused as many problems as it addressed.

The fun part is challenging the UIC or partner who tells you one thing when the book says another

Problem is that too many instructors and NUS members took the DVD as the new "bible" (supervisor's word) and any deviation, necessary to cover the play or not, would/will draw a gig on evaluation. Or just the opposite, a UIC so old or removed from actual games and encrusted in the old ways, hitting an umpire for not doing things that hadn't been in the manual for years.

NUS needs to be infused by more younger umpires, but because they are dedicated to the brand of umpiring they represent. not because a group of non-umpires determined they would represent the region as they see fit.

[Tex]

Must be missing something here for G. Any caught fly ball (fair or foul), the ball remains live.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tex

Must be missing something here for G. Any caught fly ball (fair or foul), the ball remains live.

Read the first sentence

[BretMan]

A fun one I've always liked...

For ASA, which rule tells us that a batter-runner is out if a fielder holding the ball tags first base before he gets there?

[DeputyUICHousto]

You guys have entirely too much time on your hands.