showcase

[CecilOne]

I should have asked sooner, but are any of you at the showcase in Sterling, VA? If so, field and time, please

[GoRedSox]

Yes, I was at Potomic Lakes yesterday and will be at Claude Moore today. I am a bit sore today and I sure even more so tomorrow.
On #9 today.

[CecilOne]

Where in what manual is the 2 out tap 2 fingers on the wrist?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

Where in what manual is the 2 out tap 2 fingers on the wrist?

NCAA

[shipwreck]

I like this umpire to umpire signal for a possible timing play. My problem with it is people that use it incorrectly. I have several umpire partners that do it any time there are 2 outs, even with nobody on. I have explained to them you don't have to worry about if a run scores or not with nobody on base. They also give it in the last inning with 2 outs when there is no way the team can win and runs scored don't matter. Maybe I am being too picky. Dave

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I like this umpire to umpire signal for a possible timing play. My problem with it is people that use it incorrectly. I have several umpire partners that do it any time there are 2 outs, even with nobody on. I have explained to them you don't have to worry about if a run scores or not with nobody on base. They also give it in the last inning with 2 outs when there is no way the team can win and runs scored don't matter. Maybe I am being too picky. Dave

I agree with your point on no runners being on base. But in some situations, runs scored DO matter in the last inning, particularly when those runs affect possible tie-breaking calculations. They also matter with respect to statistics determination.

Let me put it this way: In the last inning where the home team is winning by five, and there's a runner on second base with two outs, are you suggesting that you wouldn't turn to the scorer and announce if the run counts or not on a timing play to end the game? If you would, then you should give the signal, IMHO.

[IRISHMAFIA]

I find it ludicrous as if you believe the signal to be necessary, you must agree that the "two" portion is irrelevant and you should be offering it every time the number of outs & runners equals three.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I find it ludicrous as if you believe the signal to be necessary, you must agree that the "two" portion is irrelevant and you should be offering it every time the number of outs & runners equals three.

Stop making sense.

[EsqUmp]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I find it ludicrous as if you believe the signal to be necessary, you must agree that the "two" portion is irrelevant and you should be offering it every time the number of outs & runners equals three.

How would you compare it's usefulness to the umpire-to-umpire infield fly signal?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

How would you compare it's usefulness to the umpire-to-umpire infield fly signal?

About the same. My opinion is that a missed IF has a more negative affect on the game. When a player scores that is what the umpire is supposed to be observing anyway, not just in a particular situation. In an IF, the umpire's forgetfulness can cause direct confusion with the play and result since many an umpire will just as likely make an excuse for failing to make the appropriate call than to apply it post-play.

And again, the purpose of the two-out indicator has nothing to do with two outs.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by shipwreck

I like this umpire to umpire signal for a possible timing play. My problem with it is people that use it incorrectly. I have several umpire partners that do it any time there are 2 outs, even with nobody on. I have explained to them you don't have to worry about if a run scores or not with nobody on base. They also give it in the last inning with 2 outs when there is no way the team can win and runs scored don't matter. Maybe I am being too picky. Dave

Picky, no; but I believe you have missed an evolution of the signal.

This was originally adopted by the NCAA SUIP to signify a possible two out timing play where a run scoring might depend on the time of the out. It was used only with two outs and at least one runner on base (usually second), like baseball; then it was extended to a runner on first, with the speed of this game. It wasn't used in ANY case where a third world play might make timing an issue, it was simply a "heads up, this could be significant".

Starting with the 2012 CCA Manual, the signal was renamed the two out signal, and was extended to be used any time there are two outs, regardless runners, regardless how many batters in a row bat with two outs. It is the approved alternative to baseball holding both arms out (all softball umpire-to-umpire signals are kept within your body), and encompasses everything that may come with two outs; an out being inning-ending, a possible timing play, effectively wipes off any infield fly rule possibility. Knowing that there are two outs is deemed important enough to be sure all the umpires agree.

I'm not sure why it isn't equally (or almost as) important to know when there is one out, but we are damn well expected to know when there are two.

[tcannizzo]

Another "reminder" (necessary, or not), is that "Dropped or Grounded 3rd Strike" is in effect with R on 1B.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Another "reminder" (necessary, or not), is that "Dropped or Grounded 3rd Strike" is in effect with R on 1B.

Are you saying the timing play signal is given for that purpose as well? Or are you saying there is another signal that is sometimes given to inform partners of this situation?

Either way, I cannot ever remember anyone telling me in a class, clinic, or critique that a signal exists to do this.

[shipwreck]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Picky, no; but I believe you have missed an evolution of the signal.

This was originally adopted by the NCAA SUIP to signify a possible two out timing play where a run scoring might depend on the time of the out. It was used only with two outs and at least one runner on base (usually second), like baseball; then it was extended to a runner on first, with the speed of this game. It wasn't used in ANY case where a third world play might make timing an issue, it was simply a "heads up, this could be significant".

Starting with the 2012 CCA Manual, the signal was renamed the two out signal, and was extended to be used any time there are two outs, regardless runners, regardless how many batters in a row bat with two outs. It is the approved alternative to baseball holding both arms out (all softball umpire-to-umpire signals are kept within your body), and encompasses everything that may come with two outs; an out being inning-ending, a possible timing play, effectively wipes off any infield fly rule possibility. Knowing that there are two outs is deemed important enough to be sure all the umpires agree.

I'm not sure why it isn't equally (or almost as) important to know when there is one out, but we are damn well expected to know when there are two.

I am glad you straightened me out on this. My partners probably thought I was an idiot for telling them not to do it in certain situations. Dave

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Starting with the 2012 CCA Manual, the signal was renamed the two out signal, and was extended to be used any time there are two outs, regardless runners, regardless how many batters in a row bat with two outs. It is the approved alternative to baseball holding both arms out (all softball umpire-to-umpire signals are kept within your body), and encompasses everything that may come with two outs; an out being inning-ending, a possible timing play, effectively wipes off any infield fly rule possibility. Knowing that there are two outs is deemed important enough to be sure all the umpires agree.

I'm not sure why it isn't equally (or almost as) important to know when there is one out, but we are damn well expected to know when there are two.

And why did someone believe it was necessary to have ANOTHER "two out signal"?

I've been using a "two out signal" since 1966. I hold up two fingers as I raise my right hand above head level.

And don't be looking for an emoticon here.