The lights went out . . . .

[WestMichBlue]

This happened a couple days ago and the Rec Director last night asked for my opinion on the call.

ASA - Top of 7th, visitors down by a run, runner on 3B, 2 outs. Batter hits fly ball near 3B and the lights go out. Before the startled umpire can say anything, the ball is caught.

End of game, everyone went home. But an umpire's (private) discussion ensued. "Should time have been called the instant the lights went out?" Could dead ball have been called retroactively, thus negating the catch. If the ball had dropped to the ground because the fielder could not see, and the runner scored - would you (could you) have allowed that?

The results are varied.

#1 - if you declare the ball dead at the instant the lights went out, and do not allow the results of the play, then you have a regulation game and home team wins.

#2 - if you do not call time until the end of the play, then (a) you have a catch and the game is over, home team wins. Or (b) the ball drops, game tied, and you have a suspended game - come back next week and finish it.

WMB

[Striker991]

To me, this is an advantage/disadvantage question. Who was put at a disadvantage here? Obviously, the defense. Were they affected by the disadvantage? No, they caught the ball. If the ball was dropped, there may be an issue here. Since it was not, game over.

[Andy]

There was a thread on here some time ago about a foul ball coming from an adjacent field onto your field while a batted ball was being played on. Unfortuneatly, I was unable to find the thread to reference.

The conclusion of that thread was that the umpire shall not call "time" during a live ball, except in the case of severe injury to a player. I don't have the ASA rule reference.

In your case, I can forsee two outcomes.

a) fly ball caught, third out, game over.
b) fly ball not caught, run scores, BR at first with two outs and a tied ball game.

By rule, the umpire cannot call time when the lights went out as a live ball was in play. If the fly ball is not caught, play continues until conclusion.

Let the League director decide how to conclude the game!

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Andy
...the umpire shall not call "time" during a live ball, except in the case of severe injury to a player. ... By rule, the umpire cannot call time when the lights went out as a live ball was in play.

While I agree with your conclusion (let the play continue, live with the result), the rule you are referencing is not so strongly worded as your underlined words above would have it.

The rule is ASA 10-8, SUSPENSION OF PLAY.

10-8A says,

Umpires may suspend play when, in their judgment, conditions justify such action.

Now, since the ball was caught, I assume it was not pitch black, so while the conditions were not ideal, they were not impossible either. Therefore, let the play continue to it's natural end. Then suspend play due to darkness.

10-8E (the rule you were referencing) says,

An umpire will not call time while any play is in progress, including when a thrown ball hits an umpire...(exception for an injured player follows)

It says "will not" not "shall not" or "cannot." This gives the umpire some small bit of wiggle room (IMO) to apply 10-8A if conditions are severe enough, due to something happening suddenly.

At least that is the way I see it.

[CecilOne]

I agree with not calling time during a live ball, regardless of shall, will or can not. In this case, the ball was batted before the lights went out so the fielder must have seen it to catch it. That would mean not calling time, even if the ball was out of sight in the darkness because the batter hit it in the light. The problem is if the fielder missed it because of the darkness. Then you have allowed an injustice by not killing it.

A batted ball that crosses over a fence or dead ball line becomes dead in flight because it is unplayable and so should a ball that disappears in the darkness and is therefore unplayable. That means play stopped when the lights went out and the game is suspended like it would be for any ball batted out of play. Eventually, it might be decided by whatever game ending conditions or rules exist for that game.

[Andy]

Thanks for the rule cite, Tom. 10-8-E is the rule I was thinking of.

Just to throw some more into the discussion, "suspending play" and "calling time" are not synonomous, in my opinion.

To me, "suspense" means that the play will resume at the point of suspension. the most common example would be weather conditions. "Time" means that this play is over, we will start the next play.

Obviously, in this situation, it is impossible to resume play at the exact point it would be suspended, with a fly ball in flight coming down toward third base.

Maybe it's just semantics, but the original question was "Should time have been called the instant the lights went out?"

My answer was "no" based on 10-8-E. Let the play finish. It's either "game over" or let the league decide how it finishes.

[greymule]

I once had the lights go out as the BR was rounding 2B and on his way for a triple.

The field was situated such that there were really no other sources of light anywhere. No houses, no streetlights, no car headlights. Nobody could see the hand in front of his face for a few minutes. In the dark, I doubt that the runner could have found 3B.

The game was of course suspended, and I put the runner on 3B since I believed he would have had a triple.

With a fly ball caught, I'd let the play stand. If there was an easy fly in the air and the lights went out at that point, maybe we have a do-over.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by Andy
Just to throw some more into the discussion, "suspending play" and "calling time" are not synonomous, in my opinion.

To me, "suspense" means that the play will resume at the point of suspension. the most common example would be weather conditions. "Time" means that this play is over, we will start the next play.

I agree with the semantic distinction - I suspect the original question would have been better phrased "should play have been suspended..."

I don't believe play should have been suspended in mid-play except in very unusual exceptions (e.g. injured player). Another example: sudden lightning strike; other safety issue (can't think of one off hand).

But just because you let the play conclude doesn't mean you would always live with the result. In the example cited, I'd say the result stands since the defense did make the play in spite of circumstances. But, in greymule's example, play was suspended after the play (more or less), but the "completion" of the play was by umpire judgment. In other circumstances, umpire judgment as to what "would have happened" may be applied, or the league officials may decide on a do-over.

But, to reiterate what I said above, the wording of 10-8E and the included exception means, to me, the umpire may suspend play while playing action is on-going under certain conditions - safety being the obvious reason.

[LDUB]

Originally posted by Dakota

I don't believe play should have been suspended in mid-play except in very unusual exceptions (e.g. injured player).

So lets say R1 on first. Ball is hit to outfield. R1 passes second and halfway to third falls, and breaks his arm badly, I mean the arm is totaly bent right in the middle of his forearm. So oviously it is a badly injured player. So you would call time? Then what do you do? Award the runner third? Call him out? You can't call him out because the ball is dead. Either way you got an argument coming from one of the teams. You're stuck once you stop play. You should allow the defense to tag out R1, and then if the BR is not trying to advance, then call time. Do not call time for a injured player.

[SC Ump]

All codes have something similar; in NFHS it is 10-2-3(g) - The umpire-in-chief shall make final decision on points not covered by the rules.

Just do what you think is fair.

Another example:

Q- High fly ball is in the air and is suddenly struck by lightning. Cover goes one way and core goes the other. What the does fielder have to catch?

A- He has to catch me, 'cause my butt is heading for shelter.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by LDUB
Do not call time for a injured player.

Ahem....

ASA Rule 10-8 SUSPENSION OF PLAY

E. An umpire will not call time while any play is in progress, including when a thrown ball hits an umpire.
EXCEPTION: During a live ball situation, when a player becomes injured, and in the umpire's judgment requires immediate attention, then umpire shall call time and seek first aid. (Rule 4-11)

ASA Rule 4-11 INJURED PLAYER.

During a live ball situation, when a player becomes injured, and in the umpire's judgment requires immediate attention, the umpire shall call "DEAD BALL" and allow or seek first aid. EFFECT: Award any bases that would have been reached.

I suppose we could argue about the contradictions here - should the umpire call time or "DEAD BALL" and should the umpire allow first aid or seek first aid!

This was a rule change in ASA for 2003. It's no doubt different in many other codes. Until this change, the rule was to allow play to continue to it's natural conclusion.