Lessons Learned from 18U Gold (Long Post)

[shagpal]

He asked, I answered.

It has been asked more than once. No one else wanted to answer. That is nonsense.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

What's all this advance camp nonsense?

This is BASIC 3-man in ASA. One of perhaps 5 sentences I would give a newbie thrust into 3-man with no notice for the very first time.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shagpal

He asked, I answered.

It has been asked more than once. No one else wanted to answer. That is nonsense.

OK, yes, you answered. But not accurately. You told him this was an advanced mechanic that you could only learn in schools. I'm aware of your need to tie every post, somehow, to a way to denigrate ASA... but I hadn't seen you flat out lie before.

This (the "chute") is absolutely not an advanced mechanic. In fact, it's one of the very first things you need to learn, right after "where to start" depending on where runners are.

[shagpal]

Its just a name given to a play for 3-man mechanics, it was asked and explained why it is endearingly named as such and the difference between ASA and NCAA. Where did you learn it and why didn't you just answer it simply when asked?

Over moderating and over officiating are similar failures. If you can't resist a knee jerk white knuckle reaction, you can take it off-line. Or, you coulda simply answered the question better yourself and saved your aggravation.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

OK, yes, you answered. But not accurately. You told him this was an advanced mechanic that you could only learn in schools. I'm aware of your need to tie every post, somehow, to a way to denigrate ASA... but I hadn't seen you flat out lie before.

This (the "chute") is absolutely not an advanced mechanic. In fact, it's one of the very first things you need to learn, right after "where to start" depending on where runners are.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Its just a name given to a play for 3-man mechanics, it was asked and explained why it is endearingly named as such and the difference between ASA and NCAA. Where did you learn it and why didn't you just answer it simply when asked?

Over moderating and over officiating are similar failures. If you can't resist a knee jerk white knuckle reaction, you can take it off-line. Or, you coulda simply answered the question better yourself and saved your aggravation.

A) What exactly do you think I moderated?
B) Every post by a "moderator" is not moderating - we are officials too.
C) I don't feel aggravated ... and promise I was never white-knuckled over anything. I simply disagreed with your intimation that this was some sort of hi-tech super-umpiring technique only learned by spending your money. Disagreement is not moderation. It's just disagreement. Moderators can disagree with someone, and/or call them out when they flat out lie, just like anyone else.

You lied. Me saying so is not "over moderation". And it didn't need to be taken off-line.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

C) I don't feel aggravated ... and promise I was never white-knuckled over anything. I simply disagreed with your intimation that this was some sort of hi-tech super-umpiring technique only learned by spending your money. Disagreement is not moderation. It's just disagreement. Moderators can disagree with someone, and/or call them out when they flat out lie, just like anyone else.

I hope that is the end of this particular "conversation".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

I hope that is the end of this particular "conversation".

Wishful thinking...

[shagpal]

3-man is advanced AFAIK from when I called ASA. I never learned any 3-man at any ASA rules or mechanics clinic, and at ASA national school, it was touched on briefly without much fanfare or thought. Almost all 3-man and variations of it from ASA vs NCAA, I learned in approved NCAA camps, which I consider "advanced".

I didn't know it was even called the chute play till worked one of my first college fall ball games with a tried and true golden indicator ASA veteran. He explained the origin of the names, the chute, the rabbit. And, funny, he explained, "after 8 years of loyalty and working hard in the ASA, I realized I really know nothing". He's just breaking into non-conference D1 ball now.

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

A) What exactly do you think I moderated?
B) Every post by a "moderator" is not moderating - we are officials too.
C) I don't feel aggravated ... and promise I was never white-knuckled over anything. I simply disagreed with your intimation that this was some sort of hi-tech super-umpiring technique only learned by spending your money. Disagreement is not moderation. It's just disagreement. Moderators can disagree with someone, and/or call them out when they flat out lie, just like anyone else.

You lied. Me saying so is not "over moderation". And it didn't need to be taken off-line.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Its just a name given to a play for 3-man mechanics, it was asked and explained why it is endearingly named as such and the difference between ASA and NCAA. Where did you learn it and why didn't you just answer it simply when asked?

Over moderating and over officiating are similar failures. If you can't resist a knee jerk white knuckle reaction, you can take it off-line. Or, you coulda simply answered the question better yourself and saved your aggravation.

It is a term I have never heard in over 25 years of working ASA/ISF 3-umpire mechanics, so maybe that is why people are asking.

Regardless of what anyone or organization wants to claim, U3 has the best look at a possible play @ 1B. Well, I should say a competent U3 as I know of a few that would just walk toward the SS assuming there will not be a play @ 1.

[shagpal]

I guess it has been handed down from the generations, and I am fortunate or unfortunate enuff to be blessed with that knowledge. It was conveyed to me by an established ASA vet on a college field and game, not an advanced ASA camp, so go figure. Perhaps we are now both liars according to the language patrol and factoid hall monitors who goes without saying must have attended every advanced camp.

But whether 3U or PU has a better look at 1B is debatable. Its the one that has the better hustle to get to position, angle and distance to make that call to consider. In 3-man, an NCAA PU must be able to get there to make that call in angle and distance. ASA seems to prefer age and experience behind the plate not mobility, and speed and youth at the rabbit (3U). I call that, the seniority factor.

There may be no initial play at 1B, but there is a high likelihood of a throwback after rounding. I like the PU distance and angle on the throwback. I like U3 waiting at 2B ahead of the play. I prefer the PU for those reasons, and U3 can continue towards the SS onwards to 2B ahead of the play.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

It is a term I have never heard in over 25 years of working ASA/ISF 3-umpire mechanics, so maybe that is why people are asking.

Regardless of what anyone or organization wants to claim, U3 has the best look at a possible play @ 1B. Well, I should say a competent U3 as I know of a few that would just walk toward the SS assuming there will not be a play @ 1.

[tcannizzo]

I never heard the term, but it is the exact mechanic I use when being the rabbit.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by shagpal

But whether 3U or PU has a better look at 1B is debatable. Its the one that has the better hustle to get to position, angle and distance to make that call to consider. In 3-man, an NCAA PU must be able to get there to make that call in angle and distance. ASA seems to prefer age and experience behind the plate not mobility, and speed and youth at the rabbit (3U). I call that, the seniority factor.

There may be no initial play at 1B, but there is a high likelihood of a throwback after rounding. I like the PU distance and angle on the throwback. I like U3 waiting at 2B ahead of the play. I prefer the PU for those reasons, and U3 can continue towards the SS onwards to 2B ahead of the play.

I will take a competent U3 coming across every time. But what would I know, I've never worked a DI game, so I must be an idiot. I've just been trained by MButler, HPollard, BPeterson, WSparks, NDavis, DEpperson, etc. And did I happen to mention TMason? Yeah, you're the lucky one.

See ya, meat.

[shagpal]

A competent U3 has to read off of a competent U1. If U1 hesitates, which happens often, you better read U3 or hustle and trail all the way up if there's gonna be a hole. Better to have a complete competent crew than rely on one guy to fill that hole.

Who cares who trained you.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

I will take a competent U3 coming across every time. But what would I know, I've never worked a DI game, so I must be an idiot. I've just been trained by MButler, HPollard, BPeterson, WSparks, NDavis, DEpperson, etc. And did I happen to mention TMason? Yeah, you're the lucky one.

See ya, meat.