Lessons Learned from 18U Gold (Long Post)

[outathm]

Of course, all of your games had to be replayed since the mechanical errors you committed caused the outcome to change.

It amazes me how much we, as umpires, think that people pay attention to what we are doing.

If we went the entire game without signaling safes and outs, I would be willing to bet that 97% of the time the runner would wither walk back into the dugout or go back to the base.

I agree that the NCAA vs ASA mechanic argument is true, but I also have a strong suspicion that Manny does not work enough NCAA ball to have developed NCAA habits. It may be the people in his area are NCAA people and have taught him the NCAA way.

[Rich]

Posts like these remind me why I probably could never be a top softball umpire and contribute to why I'm baseball-only and have been for over 15 years. It does help me appreciate some of the differences, though, since I could be coaching my daughter's team next year.

Looking at the list, I'm most stunned at #1. I would ding a baseball umpire for NOT giving a safe signal on a close interference/no interference situation.

Oh, and #3. The sure sign of a baseball umpire that needs some training (or at least needs to be told about it) is a plate guy who signals foul on a ball straight back to the screen instead of reaching into the ball bag to give another ball to the catcher. Or a base umpire who signals foul on a ball obviously out of play.

Different strokes, and all that.

I wonder if Manny's training was mainly rooted in baseball. Most of his list are baseball umpiring mechanics.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Actually, don't know why any of these are even considered an issue. There is nothing there that shouldn't have been known and familiar before being assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA.

Obviously, there are some deviations that should NOT earn an umpire a gig if there was a reason for it occurring (i.e., call from foul ground). Again, though, it should be the exception, not the standard.

This stuff is the standard that has been included in schools and clinics for more than a decade. If it is a shock to you, that means you even haven't gone to the clinics or your clinicians are not presenting you with what is expected.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Actually, don't know why any of these are even considered an issue. There is nothing there that shouldn't have been known and familiar before being assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA.
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This stuff is the standard that has been included in schools and clinics for more than a decade. If it is a shock to you, that means you even haven't gone to the clinics or your clinicians are not presenting you with what is expected.

Guilty as charged. I haven't been to an ASA school or clinic (other than routine pre-season training with my association). The vast majority of what I know is through OJT from previous ASA Nationals, Showcases, and other tournaments. And with the exception of maybe two or three games a year, I work two-man in those games.

And as others have pondered, I did start out as a baseball-only umpire, and worked baseball for about 12 years, before moving over to softball. To this day, I still bring those nasty baseball habits onto the skinned moundless field with me (like tracking pitches only with my eyes, not signalling foul on the ball back to the screen, etc.)

So maybe I wasn't cut out to be "assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA." But I can tell you that there wasn't a single umpire from what I saw or heard during post-game critiques of other crews who didn't screw a couple of these things up. Perhaps it's because they all had extensive NCAA experience, or maybe they, like me, had a baseball background. Or maybe they were just human.

Whatever the case, I was not alone in either forgetting, or just being totally unfamiliar with, the "ASA way" that was expected of us in this National. And I posted my observations to help others here who may be in the same boat.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Guilty as charged. I haven't been to an ASA school or clinic (other than routine pre-season training with my association). The vast majority of what I know is through OJT from previous ASA Nationals, Showcases, and other tournaments. And with the exception of maybe two or three games a year, I work two-man in those games.

And as others have pondered, I did start out as a baseball-only umpire, and worked baseball for about 12 years, before moving over to softball. To this day, I still bring those nasty baseball habits onto the skinned moundless field with me (like tracking pitches only with my eyes, not signalling foul on the ball back to the screen, etc.)

So maybe I wasn't cut out to be "assigned to a tournament of this level for ASA." But I can tell you that there wasn't a single umpire from what I saw or heard during post-game critiques of other crews who didn't screw a couple of these things up. Perhaps it's because they all had extensive NCAA experience, or maybe they, like me, had a baseball background. Or maybe they were just human.

Whatever the case, I was not alone in either forgetting, or just being totally unfamiliar with, the "ASA way" that was expected of us in this National. And I posted my observations to help others here who may be in the same boat.

Manny, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't have been there, though without a national school, IMO, you shouldn't have, but more on a procedural standpoint.

And part of my reason is just what you stated here. These things are common mechanics for ASA. Would you not agree that to reach the top level of ASA FP, the umpire should have the advantage of this knowledge beforehand? If you were a coach, would that not be your expectation of the officiating crew? I can understand umpires just moving into the world of NC play not being 100% up to snuff on some things as different areas and instructors do occasionally insert personal, non-official mechanics, but that should not be an issue at the Gold.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Manny, I wasn't suggesting that you shouldn't have been there, though without a national school, IMO, you shouldn't have, but more on a procedural standpoint.

I don't necessarily disagree with you here. I know I would have benefited from attending (and I will in the near future). And if it had been a hard-fast prerequisite, I would have made the arrangements beforehand. Suffice it to say that, given other demands in both my work and personal calendars, I didn't have the wherewithal to attend one this year. So I did what I thought was prudent, attending local training with my association UIC, researching materials on ASA's website, and asking questions on this board.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And part of my reason is just what you stated here. These things are common mechanics for ASA. Would you not agree that to reach the top level of ASA FP, the umpire should have the advantage of this knowledge beforehand? If you were a coach, would that not be your expectation of the officiating crew? I can understand umpires just moving into the world of NC play not being 100% up to snuff on some things as different areas and instructors do occasionally insert personal, non-official mechanics, but that should not be an issue at the Gold.

I agree with this as well. And for the most part, I felt all umpires at this Gold were well up to speed for the most part. It was just what I consider a few technicalities that were highlighted by the evaluators that caught me--and perhaps a few others--unaware. I made sure to exercise them the next time I took the field, and offered them here for others to benefit.

As for the coaches, I honestly don't believe any of them knew any better, but I could be wrong. Hell, I had one head coach question whether an opposing pitcher had just committed a Balk, for crying out loud.

[SE Minnestoa Re]

Let me preface--I am both a baseball and softball umpire. I went to ASA National School back when I worked that level of ball.

I gave up ASA many years ago for numerous reasons. Too many games in a day when working tournaments, all the nitpicking of umpires by higherups, crummy pay per game...I could keep going on.

I currently work NCAA softball at the Division 2 and 3 levels. I work in an association that has proticals. However, nitpicking is not one of them.

Do I always throw my arms up on a foul ball straight back--no.

Do I sometimes use an unauthorized signal--sure

Do I hustle and work hard on the field and do I know the rules--absolutely

The bottom line is we need to get the plays right. I love mechanics that assist umpires in this goal. I am not a big believer in mechanics for the sake of mechanics. I worked my state's state high school softball tournament this spring and the UIC suggested we don't signal outs on routine fly balls. He said nobody is looking at the umpire anyway.

I liked that one. It made sense to me.

I'm sure if some ASA guy watched me work he would cringe with some of the things I do. Frankly, I have a hard enough time remembering rule differences, when in three consecutive days I work high school baseball, college softball and high school softball. Some of the book mechanics don't even hit my brain.

[shagpal]

Different philosophies.

In ASA, you will get "always do this, or never do that".

In NCAA, you will be asked "why did you do this, or what were you thinking when you did that".

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by shagpal

Different philosophies.

In ASA, you will get "always do this, or never do that".

In NCAA, you will be asked "why did you do this, or what were you thinking when you did that".

Actually, our tournament UICs accepted reasonable explanations to any deviations of the norm. They did ask during critiques questions like, "Why did you make the call from there?" They wanted to make sure the umpire knew what was expected, and wanted to understand the umpire's rationale for doing something different.

[shagpal]

OK, that is good to hear.

But then, what is up with BU "never" making a call from foul (your #6)?

Originally Posted by Manny A

Actually, our tournament UICs accepted reasonable explanations to any deviations of the norm. They did ask during critiques questions like, "Why did you make the call from there?" They wanted to make sure the umpire knew what was expected, and wanted to understand the umpire's rationale for doing something different.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

Looking at the list, I'm most stunned at #1. I would ding a baseball umpire for NOT giving a safe signal on a close interference/no interference situation.

Oh, and #3. The sure sign of a baseball umpire that needs some training (or at least needs to be told about it) is a plate guy who signals foul on a ball straight back to the screen instead of reaching into the ball bag to give another ball to the catcher. Or a base umpire who signals foul on a ball obviously out of play.

So, you support making a call on something that did not happen, yet you don't want a signal on something that did?

I don't have a problem with no big signal on an obvious foul ball EXCEPT to notify a player who is NOT AWARE of the OBVIOUS foul ball and is still playing the game. Remember, just because it is obvious to you, doesn't mean it is obvious to everyone on the field. And, BTW, the calls and signals are for them, not you.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

So, you support making a call on something that did not happen, yet you don't want a signal on something that did?

I don't have a problem with no big signal on an obvious foul ball EXCEPT to notify a player who is NOT AWARE of the OBVIOUS foul ball and is still playing the game. Remember, just because it is obvious to you, doesn't mean it is obvious to everyone on the field. And, BTW, the calls and signals are for them, not you.

And when they're needed, they're given. On a clear foul ball back to the screen or a ball clearly out of play, nobody needs an umpire and the signal is superfluous. The base umpire might say, "it's foul" to an advancing runner, but even that's not a requirement.

On a ball that barely misses a runner, a safe signal clearly tells everyone that "I saw the ball and it didn't hit the runner." It's a signal that communicates something useful.

Like I said, different strokes. Doesn't make your way better or my way better, but those guys that work both sports had better know the ways of each unless they want to get marked down. Sitting next to an evaluator, for example, I saw the pen come out when a plate guy said "dead ball" on a HBP in a baseball game last week. Absolutely wrong in baseball, but proper in softball.

Unlike softball, though, I can work essentially the same mechanics in every one of my baseball games. Apparently there's a heackuva schism in softball between the different bodies.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rich

And when they're needed, they're given. On a clear foul ball back to the screen or a ball clearly out of play, nobody needs an umpire and the signal is superfluous. The base umpire might say, "it's foul" to an advancing runner, but even that's not a requirement.

I don't disagree, but the standard is that the umpire calls the game, not just portions of it. Personally, the "foul" call has always been one of reaction and I'd rather have an umpire make a superfluous call than waste time on getting the field reset because someone didn't think it was that obvious.

On a ball that barely misses a runner, a safe signal clearly tells everyone that "I saw the ball and it didn't hit the runner." It's a signal that communicates something useful.

So if there is no signal, the umpire is inferring "I wasn't watching"? If the umpire saw it, s/he would have called it. Talk about superfluous.

Like I said, different strokes. Doesn't make your way better or my way better, but those guys that work both sports had better know the ways of each unless they want to get marked down. Sitting next to an evaluator, for example, I saw the pen come out when a plate guy said "dead ball" on a HBP in a baseball game last week. Absolutely wrong in baseball, but proper in softball.

Why is that wrong? Baseball rules (MLB 5.09) clearly state that "the ball becomes dead" when the batter is HBP.

Unlike softball, though, I can work essentially the same mechanics in every one of my baseball games. Apparently there's a heackuva schism in softball between the different bodies.

The base was developed by the ASA. NFHS & ISF have the same mechanics as ASA. NCAA has different mechanics, but that is a closed shop and even then that have been some issues among crews, just as there is elsewhere.

In ASA, NFHS & ISF, if the umpires are using the book mechanics, I can walk onto the field with any of those umpires without a pregame and not have a problem. It is the interjection of personal preferences that will cause a crew issues. Don't get me wrong, I've had my issues and arguments with the ASA staff about some of their mechanics, but when working their games, I will do my best to use their mechanics.

When I worked baseball, many of the mechanics were the same except BU starting inside. Then again, if you didn't go to a professional school, your training was mostly local.