Softball--pitching circle

[Rita C]

R3, batter draws a walk and continues on to second without stopping. Pitcher is
in the circle.

a.) R3 leaves the base as pitcher's attention is diverted to BR and heads home.

b.) R3 leaves the base to run home and then pitcher makes a feint toward second.

c.) R3 leaves the base to run home after pitcher makes feint toward second.

Your call in each scenario? High School or LL answers.

Rita

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Rita C

R3, batter draws a walk and continues on to second without stopping. Pitcher is
in the circle.

a.) R3 leaves the base as pitcher's attention is diverted to BR and heads home.

Assuming you mean BR as R4 having already touched 1B, R3 is out.

b.) R3 leaves the base to run home and then pitcher makes a feint toward second.

R3 is out

c.) R3 leaves the base to run home after pitcher makes feint toward second.

Assuming you are referring to a throw as being feigned, the LBR is no longer in effect.

Your call in each scenario? High School or LL answers.

Rita

ASA & NFHS

[RKBUmp]

Dont know the LL rules, but in all other rule sets in a and b, dead ball, R3 out, BR returns to 1st base. In c, live ball.

[Crabby_Bob]

Originally Posted by Rita C

R3, batter draws a walk and continues on to second without stopping. Pitcher is
in the circle. [...]

The Look Back rule is not in effect until the pitcher has possession of the ball in the circle (FED) (possession and control in ASA) and the BR has touched first base or been declared out. IF these two conditions are met, then you have as others have previously posted.

[Rita C]

Thank you all. Just wanted to confirm my understanding of the rule.

Rita

[ASA/NYSSOBLUE]

ok - a related mechanics question - In FP/MFP, after a play with runners on, when do you actually stop watching the ball, and and actually start watching the baserunner(s)?

It is pretty amazing the number of umps I work with who will actually be watching the runners, without ever watching the BALL. And they are usually the ones who are calling time out every time an infielder asks- even with runners off the bases! ....drives me nuts sometimes!


The proper answer, of course, is watch the ball, with glances at the runner, so you have a feel for what they are doing. Once I see that P going ALL the way in the circle with the ball, I then look at the runner - if they are still standing off base by the time I have turned my head - BANG! 41 to go.....

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

It is pretty amazing the number of umps I work with who will actually be watching the runners, without ever watching the BALL. And they are usually the ones who are calling time out every time an infielder asks- even with runners off the bases! ....drives me nuts sometimes!

Obviously, I have no problem granting time, runners on or off the base , but you are correct, they cannot effect a rule without being completely aware of all the elements and that includes the ball.

- BANG! 41 to go.....

And that (BANG) is one reason I believe the rule has to go.

[BretMan]

Something that might affect the answers here...

Though I've never worked Little League, I do seem to remember from past discussions that they have (or, had) a slightly different interpretation regarding the look back rule compared to other organizations.

Specifically, does LL have the same clause in their rule about the look back going into effect when the batter-runner reaches first base? I thought that their LBR went into effect immediately when the batter became a batter-runner, before they even get to first base.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And that (BANG) is one reason I believe the rule has to go.

OR, "GOTCHA" umpires.

[vcblue]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

The proper answer, of course, is watch the ball, with glances at the runner, so you have a feel for what they are doing. Once I see that P going ALL the way in the circle with the ball, I then look at the runner - if they are still standing off base by the time I have turned my head - BANG! 41 to go.....

Really??? In 2013 we still have umpires that think it is their job to get outs instead of getting it right? The way you describe your mechanic is just wrong!

Also, why should a runner that just drove back to the bag not be granted time. I bet you have no problem giving time to a catcher when the pitcher gets wild or to call time after a runner is standing on the base (let's say 2nd) and wants to take off and give her arm protector to her coach.

I'll answer my own question. "Because in 2013 we still have umpires who think it is their job to get outs."

[xtremeump]

Originally Posted by vcblue

Really??? In 2013 we still have umpires that think it is their job to get outs instead of getting it right? The way you describe your mechanic is just wrong!

Also, why should a runner that just drove back to the bag not be granted time. I bet you have no problem giving time to a catcher when the pitcher gets wild or to call time after a runner is standing on the base (let's say 2nd) and wants to take off and give her arm protector to her coach.

I'll answer my own question. "Because in 2013 we still have umpires who think it is their job to get outs."

Please tell us the right way to interpret 8-7-T, and the proper mechanics for the PU & BU ?
Strikes & Outs baby. Google Oswald Tower if you want to get deep into the philosophy of Officiating.

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by ASA/NYSSOBLUE

ok - a related mechanics question - In FP/MFP, after a play with runners on, when do you actually stop watching the ball, and and actually start watching the baserunner(s)?

It is pretty amazing the number of umps I work with who will actually be watching the runners, without ever watching the BALL. And they are usually the ones who are calling time out every time an infielder asks- even with runners off the bases! ....drives me nuts sometimes!


The proper answer, of course, is watch the ball, with glances at the runner, so you have a feel for what they are doing. Once I see that P going ALL the way in the circle with the ball, I then look at the runner - if they are still standing off base by the time I have turned my head - BANG! 41 to go.....

I'm not looking for a cheap out. And I am not going to guess an out. If she is still off base when I first see her she gets her chance to immediately move. After that then yes she is out.

Of course some times you have no choice but to call a cheap out. Twice this season in JV games I had a runner who had safely advanced from 1B to 2B for no discernible reason leave 2B and headed back to 1B while the ball was held by F1 in the circle. In one case I heard the girl tell her coach "I thought it was a foul ball" but she must have been the only one in the park who thought so.

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by Rita C

R3, batter draws a walk and continues on to second without stopping. Pitcher is
in the circle.

a.) R3 leaves the base as pitcher's attention is diverted to BR and heads home.

b.) R3 leaves the base to run home and then pitcher makes a feint toward second.

c.) R3 leaves the base to run home after pitcher makes feint toward second.

Your call in each scenario? High School or LL answers.

Rita

I don't see enough information in a to answer properly to be honest.

a) If the attention is diverted to the BR that would mean the BR has not yet touched 1st base, and in this case the LBR would not apply since the LBR does not apply until the BR touches first base. At that point the BR touches 1st base, then you have a runner. If R3 left after you have a runner going from 1st to second, while the pitcher has the ball in the circle then its dead ball, R3 out. If it happens while she is still a BR (hasn't touched first), there is nothing.

b) This is pretty clear cut. Dead ball, R3 is out since the pitcher has the ball in the circle and no play has been made.

c) Since the runner left after the feint was made to second, the runner is released and there is no call.