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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 08:52am
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"ASA FP or SP
Rule 7 Sec. 5.b A ball is called by the umpire for each legally pitched ball that: #4 the batter swings at, after the ball hits the ground or home plate." Hey Cec, you not awake yet? How did this get past your normally sharp eyes? We are talking FP here, nelyak. What you quoted is a SP rule, which kills the ball when it touches the ground. In FP the ball stays alive and all sorts of things can happen. WMB 
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 09:15am
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Quote:
 Just because it says "Slow Pitch Only" (except slower pitch) in the rule, he thinks I should have noticed. BTW, what's the "#4" in the above. Also, any answer to my Q?
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 09:52am
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As someone who calls both sports, I never understand why umpires who only call one of the sports want to pretend the other doesn't exist.
Many people PLAY softball, but WATCH baseball, or umpire both. It causes confusion on the softball diamond or the baseball diamond when the players (or worse, the UMPIRES) don't know the difference. That said, I think it's important to know the differences. In baseball (OBR, the pro book used by most amateur leagues), the pitch must be delivered in this situation and it WILL be called a strike. Here is the entire sitation: 6.02(c) If the batter refuses to take his position in the batter's box during his time at bat, the umpire shall order the pitcher to pitch, and shall call "Strike" on each such pitch. The batter may take his proper position after any such pitch, and the regular ball and strike count shall continue, but if he does not take his proper position before three strikes are called, he shall be declared out. BTW, I've had the reverse happen in my lifetime. Working baseball, I had a runner hit with a fair batted baseball. In baseball, this is an out unless the ball is a declared infield fly. That was the only game I ever worked that went to protest. While many of you have no interest in baseball or may dislike baseball, I think it is to your advantage to know the differences -- it can head off problems on the field. I've used the phrase, "that's the rule in softball, but not in baseball" before and it has worked well for me. Rich
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 12:07pm
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"As someone who calls both sports, I never understand why umpires who only call one of the sports want to pretend the other doesn't exist"
It's not that we don't care about other sports; it's a matter of focus. This is a softball board, and we are softball umpires that discuss softball issues. Bringing in baseball situations or rules just muddies up the discussion. Fact is, we have enough trouble just dealing with all our own rule variations (FP, SP, NFHS, ASA, U-trip, L.L., NCAA, PONY, AFA, NSA, Dixie, plus Rec League local rules.) I used to call HS baseball, but I realized that I could not become a high quality umpire in both sports so I chose to focus only on softball. There are simply way too many rule differences, mechanic differences, and attitude differences to overcome. Even within the national organizations that write rules for both sports (NFHS, L.L.), there is limited coordination between their two rules committees. This thread started with a call by a baseball umpire! My partner's first love is baseball; he has been a umpire for 30 years, he has worked HS state finals in baseball. He is a good umpire, but he doesn't know softball! Weve had some very angry arguments in the parking lot after games because of these issues. Example: Baseball batter not in box, order pitch, call strike. SB do not allow pitch, call strike. SB mechanic: BU takes B-R all the way to 3B. BB mechanic: U2 only takes B-R to 2B then holds to either take runner back to 2B, or to go home. U1 has B-R into 3B. That is why I ran into him the first time I took a B-R to 3B, and why he assumed that I would peel off and go home. (That should answer your question, SC Ump.) BB mechanic: on a steal of 2B, U2 is on the infield and is in a good position to take the runner to 3B if the throw goes past 2B. In SB, the BU coming from the B position will be behind 2B and cannot take the runner to 3B. In a hundred games Ive done with a softball ump, I never have to think about 3B in this situation, I know that PU will be there. In this summer league, there have been several times the ball has gone through and Ive looked up to see my partner watching the play from home plate. Ive talked about this, but his 30 years of BB training just traps him at home. I personally like baseball; I take in a HS game whenever I can, and I watch the NCAA playoff and WS. But I will not watch MLB. (Of course, if you are from Michigan and are a Tigers fan, that is understandable!) WMB
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 12:29pm
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Quote:
__________________
The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 02:44pm
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I agree that knowing other rules sometimes adds credibility when explaining a rule; but I rarely have to "instruct" anyone who thinks HARDball rules and I barely have enough time to keep up with 6 sets of SOFTball rules. I don't object very much to umpires mentioning HARDball rules on this forum as long as they are clearly separated, not used to answer a SOFTball question and don't expect me to remember them
 . Yes, the PU has the stealing runner from 1st on an overthrow if the BU is in B; but I object to anyone saying I can't get there from B. As soon as the ball is past, I'm hooking inside the bases anyway.
__________________
Officiating takes more than OJT. It's not our jobs to invent rulings to fit our personal idea of what should and should not be.
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 03:18pm
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Huh?
Quote:
Rule 7 Sect 5. A ball is called by the Umpire A. (FP Only) For each legally pitched ball which does not enter the strike zone, touches the ground before reaching home plate, or touches home plate, and the batter does NOT swing. (capitalization is mine) Effect: The ball is in play and runners are entitled to advance with liability to be put out. B. (SP Only) For each legally pitched ball which does not enter the strike zone, touches the ground before reaching home plate, or touches home plate, and the batter does not swing. Any pitched ball that hits the ground or plate cannot be legally swung at by the batter. If the batter swings at a pitch after the ball hits the ground or plate, it is a ball. Effect: The ball is dead and runners may not advance. (16-inch SL): The ball remains live; however, runners cannot advance. Take a look at Rule 7.4.C. In fast pitch softball, when a batter swings at a legally pitched ball, you have a strike. It doesn't matter if it is 10 feet over her head, or, if it hits the ground 10 feet in front of the plate, or, if it hits her, or, if it hits the plate .It's still a swinging strike. Newter
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 09:11pm
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Cecilone:
Yes, the operative word is after, however the original post said, "F1 throws 2 bouncer to F2 and PU calls strike" If the batter had swung at this pitch the PU should have called a ball according to rule. Again code simply states that for delay the PU should simply call a strike every 20 seconds.
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Thu Aug 07, 2003, 09:54pm
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"Cecilone: Yes, the operative word is after, however the original post said, "F1 throws 2 bouncer to F2 and PU calls strike" The original post was about an ASA Women's FastPitch game.
"If the batter had swung at this pitch the PU should have called a ball according to rule." Fastpitch game, not SlowPitch! Besides, there was NO batter. The umpire was trying to penalize the offensive team for failing to get a batter to the plate. "Again code simply states that for delay the PU should simply call a strike every 20 seconds." TEN seconds! WMB [Edited by WestMichBlue on Aug 7th, 2003 at 11:07 PM]
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