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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2013, 03:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by topper View Post
And my reply to you would be:
1) Don't go out with multiple runners on base.
2) See #1

I just got a invitation to work on your side of town. I may have to accept, it sounds like fun. As long as it's not over 80 degrees.
You've muddied the issue a bit, making it appear I said something I didn't.

The initial issue was that PU did not know he was supposed to cover bases if BU went out. The advice was that this should be pregamed. My reply was that PU should always know he has all the bases if BU goes out.

I was not saying or even implying that "when to go out" should not be part of a pre-game --- I was just disagreeing with the idea that "if I go out, you cover the bases" should be pregamed.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2013, 03:36pm
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Perhaps this varies from place to place.

I can promise that if I show up for a game and during the pre-game say, "If I go out, you cover the bases", the reaction will be one of the following:
1) Of course, rookie.
2) Of course ... do you think this is my first game?
3) No shit, Sherlock.

It would be the same as if I said ... "If we have a runner on first, I'll be in B."

Granted ... if the pregame starts with my partner saying something like... "Wow, this is only my 3rd game behind the plate!" or if my assignor warned me that my partner was green as grass, things would be different.
Got me laughing on that one Mike!
I mean got me laughing on all three.

Last edited by KJUmp; Tue Jun 04, 2013 at 03:39pm.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2013, 03:53pm
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Got it MD.

I wouldn't pregame it either, unless I felt I needed to. If I did mention it in a pregame and got one of the three responses you listed, he/she better be on top of their game, because I'll be expecting quite a lot and will let them know when they screw up.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jun 04, 2013, 04:02pm
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When it comes to going out, what I pre-game with my BU partners is to find out if they are going to bother. Many don't, even on trouble balls down the line when they're in A, and that's something I'd like to know ahead of time. It amazes me how many umpires in my association feel that way.

Conversely, I will tell my partners that I will go out from A, because they may be the same guys who never bother and may not expect me to.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 12:37am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
When it comes to going out, what I pre-game with my BU partners is to find out if they are going to bother. Many don't, even on trouble balls down the line when they're in A, and that's something I'd like to know ahead of time. It amazes me how many umpires in my association feel that way.

Conversely, I will tell my partners that I will go out from A, because they may be the same guys who never bother and may not expect me to.
So, when you are not in A, who gets the trouble balls down the line?

Maybe just me, but I would rather make that call all day long than trail the batter from home to 3rd or home to home when F9 lets it get by.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 05:49am
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
So, when you are not in A, who gets the trouble balls down the line?

Maybe just me, but I would rather make that call all day long than trail the batter from home to 3rd or home to home when F9 lets it get by.
I don't mind trailing the batter. Maybe when these 50+ year-old legs aren't as functional as they used to be, I'll reconsider.

My point was there are many umpires who flat-out won't bother to go out from A, no matter what. I don't have a problem with that, per se. But I always ask that question at pre-game so I'm ready to take all the calls in the outfield.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 07:11am
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Many years ago, I had a partner that went out on every flyball to the outfield. Caught me by surprise the first time he went out on a routine ball........

He also tried to come back in after the catch to help with coverage a few times. Pretty nightmarish for me to be on page 1 and he was on page 1082.

Had a chat with him between innings and he told me that was his job....He got all of the catches in the outfield and the infield was mine.

Also had a chat with our UIC.....
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 06:29pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue View Post
Many years ago, I had a partner that went out on every flyball to the outfield. Caught me by surprise the first time he went out on a routine ball........

He also tried to come back in after the catch to help with coverage a few times. Pretty nightmarish for me to be on page 1 and he was on page 1082.

Had a chat with him between innings and he told me that was his job....He got all of the catches in the outfield and the infield was mine.

Also had a chat with our UIC.....
Sounds like a guy from the FL panhandle that I and a few fellow local umpires have dealt with in the past.

[/war story]I was working 1B in a WC championship game in Plant City and we were being evaluated for certification purposes. First inning, ball down LF line, U3 starts out. I come inside, watch BR hit 1B, see the ball just being picked-up by LF and take running into 2B. All of a sudden, U3 appears out of nowhere in the infield. I look at him like, WTF are you doing here? He just smiled. As I move to my position, I look over and see HP making notes. I think, "great, just what I need during an eval." Next batter hits another down the LF line, U3 starts out, I peek to make sure PU moving to holding zone watching R1, turn to see BR touch 1B and take runner into 2B and WTF! Here is that idiot again, damn near standing next to me. I look over my shoulder and my roommate working the plate is laughing his ass off, knowing that I'm gonna be pissed if this guy keeps running all over the field. I look at Henry and he is just shaking his head, making notes.

Following inning, nobody on, hard line drive up the middle going to the fence, I button hook, watch BR touch the base and look for U3 before rotating to home and he is AWOL and there is a throw coming to 2B. He is hanging out just off the line near 3B, so I have to break back toward 2B for a close call. Luckily, the ball wasn't handled well by F4, so a call wasn't necessary.

After calling time, the PU is having a little conversation with U3 who is just smiling his ass off. The whole game went like this. Drove me crazy. I think he thought being involved in as much as possible would reflect well on his eval

[/war story]

That is the problem not knowing what your partner is thinking or intending to do. As the PU, I have every ball until my partner(s) indicate otherwise and, yes, turning your back to the infield is an indication that you have the ball. The only problem is, I've had partners NOT on the line go out on a ball that is. As much as I might want to hang that partner out to dry sometimes, it isn't the teams' fault, so I will not do it. But holding on the line for fair/foul can make it difficult to cover a distant base.

That's why though it needn't be a long, in-depth conversation, it should probably be at least mentioned in the pre-game.
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Last edited by IRISHMAFIA; Wed Jun 05, 2013 at 06:31pm.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 07:10pm
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Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I don't mind trailing the batter. Maybe when these 50+ year-old legs aren't as functional as they used to be, I'll reconsider.

My point was there are many umpires who flat-out won't bother to go out from A, no matter what. I don't have a problem with that, per se. But I always ask that question at pre-game so I'm ready to take all the calls in the outfield.
Manny, I think you are missing the point. Trailing part way to first isn't a problem, of course I do it, That's the job.

I'm talking about taking the batter-runner solo from home to first, then second, third, and possibly home, because BU chases a ball that was down off the bat, and it gets past F9. Meanwhile, BU is looking for a place to sit watching me run the bases for him, or else making meaningless and redundant "safe" signals while F9 chases the obviously uncaught ball.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 06, 2013, 08:43pm
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Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
else making meaningless and redundant "safe" signals while F9 chases the obviously uncaught ball.
That is the part I don't get. There is the no ball, no call philosophy, (which I endorse strongly), no signal on the obvious foul ball, etc., but if you got out, you need to make a signal? Why?

The ball is 12 feet fair and an umpire is pointing! A ball bounces UP to the outfielder and the umpire is signaling safe!
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 07:27am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve View Post
Manny, I think you are missing the point. Trailing part way to first isn't a problem, of course I do it, That's the job.

I'm talking about taking the batter-runner solo from home to first, then second, third, and possibly home, because BU chases a ball that was down off the bat, and it gets past F9. Meanwhile, BU is looking for a place to sit watching me run the bases for him, or else making meaningless and redundant "safe" signals while F9 chases the obviously uncaught ball.
Maybe we are talking on different frequencies. When I said "trailing", I didn't mean just part way up first base. I guess I should've said "taking responsibility for the BR the whole way."

I, too, feel the same about obvious uncatchable balls. It is a little irritating to see a partner turn his/her back to watch a line shot the easily gets through the F8-F9 gap.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 02:52pm
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On a FP field of 200-240 feet.....the base umpire should almost never go out.

My Opinion

The larger SP fields are a different matter. It still should be a rare occurance......But I reserve the right to be swayed otherwise.

Joel
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 07:38pm
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The criteria I learned some years ago in baseball for chasing hold true for softball.
1-a ball to the wall
2-a ball on the line
3-fielder charging in
4-fielder charging out
5-fielders coming together
When one of these is met, there's no good reason not to chase.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 09:03pm
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With the newer NCAA policy of Reading and then reacting to chase I have come up with the following protocol on chasing.

I look for the 'factors'. In every Fly ball there will be at least 2 factors- the ball and the fielder catching the ball. Any time there is an additional 'factor' I consider chasing.

Other factors include- another Fielder, the wall, the line, the Fielder Running.

I also pre pitch whether or not the umpires are even or out number the offensive players. When the umpires outnumber the offensive players, IE- no one on or one runner (in 3 Umpire) I will chase more than stay. When we are even with them, I make sure the chase is a good one, and when the offensive players outnumber the umpires, I hope the play will be on Sports Center later that evening.
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