The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Softball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 12:59pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 258
Batter-Runner interference?

In this Notre Dame/Pitt game at about 43:40, there is an uncaught third strike. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws from fair territory. (Correction: foul territory but on the fair side of 1BLX.) The throw hits the BR just over one step before the BR, who never was in the runner's lane, reaches first base. Why isn't there BR INT here? Not a peep from the coaches either.

Last edited by Crabby_Bob; Fri May 24, 2013 at 01:39pm.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:05pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
In this Notre Dame/Pitt game at about 43:40, there is an uncaught third strike. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws from fair territory. The throw hits the BR just over one step before the BR, who never was in the runner's lane, reaches first base. Why isn't there BR INT here? Not a peep from the coaches either.
My guess is because the BR had to enter fair territory in order to touch first base. On something as close as you describe--BR just over one step before she reaches first--it would be tough to judge she still had to stay in the lane.

Per NCAA rule 12.2.4.2, the third exception when a BR may be out of the lane is "if she leaves the lane on her last stride in order to touch first base."
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
What are you looking at here... the runner absolutely does not fit the exception... she does not "exit the lane in her last step to reach the base"... in fact, the first step she ever makes in the lane is that last step.

I don't believe this was ruled INT because the runner was, actually, back in the lane for that last step when the ball hit her.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
What are you looking at here... the runner absolutely does not fit the exception... she does not "exit the lane in her last step to reach the base"... in fact, the first step she ever makes in the lane is that last step.

I don't believe this was ruled INT because the runner was, actually, back in the lane for that last step when the ball hit her.
What are YOU looking at? The runner never made a single stride in the running lane and ran all the way to 1B in fair territory? Am I missing something here...look at the replay at the 44:06 mark
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,340
I could see where the umpire could rule this was not a quality throw by the catcher. F3 is clearly set up well inside the baseline and appears to be asking for the throw to her right side away from the runner. Instead the catcher throws right down the baseline into the runner.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:50pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmoz View Post
What are YOU looking at? The runner never made a single stride in the running lane and ran all the way to 1B in fair territory? Am I missing something here...look at the replay at the 44:06 mark
Are you trying to tell me the exception should apply here? Or are you simply disagreeing with where I thought the last step was?

If the latter, let me clarify... when she gets hit, her foot is just about to hit the bag, and she gets hit on what appears to be the right shoulder. I'm not saying she ever takes a step within the lane - I'm saying that during that last step is the only time any of her body is within the lane ... and the only excuse I can come up with for not calling INT is that when the ball hit her, her body was in the lane (consider PU's view ... he's not looking at feet - he's seeing the ball/body over the lane when it hits her)
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:57pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Are you trying to tell me the exception should apply here? Or are you simply disagreeing with where I thought the last step was?
I guess both, since she never steps in the lane at all.
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 01:59pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,373
So, if a BR is hit by the ball when she is in fair territory on that last stride in order to touch first base, you are saying it should be treated one way (no violation) if she was in the lane until that last stride, and the other way (lane violation) if she was never in the lane to begin with.

I don't agree. The BR is allowed to be outside the lane for the purpose of touching first base. What difference should it make how she got there?
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:00pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robmoz View Post
I guess both, since she never steps in the lane at all.
Then you don't understand the exception at all.

You can't say she's out of the lane AND the exception applies... the exception is for a runner who is IN the lane, and then because the base is not in the lane - takes her last step outside the lane in order to touch the base.

For a runner not in the lane initially, there's no exception.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:05pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
So, if a BR is hit by the ball when she is in fair territory on that last stride in order to touch first base, you are saying it should be treated one way (no violation) if she was in the lane until that last stride, and the other way (lane violation) if she was never in the lane to begin with.

I don't agree. The BR is allowed to be outside the lane for the purpose of touching first base. What difference should it make how she got there?
The rules say there's a difference. The rules simply say you must be in the lane to avoid an interference call. If you're out of the lane, and you interfere, it's interference ... UNLESS the interference occurs during that last step where you have to exit the lane to touch the base.

Further... what you are implying invalidates the entire purpose of the running lane.

Let me make sure I'm clear here... I'm not saying there shouldn't be an INT call on this play (frankly, I kind of think they missed this one). I'm saying the only excuse I can think of for not calling it is that the runner, from the POV of the PU, was in the lane when struck.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:10pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
Then you don't understand the exception at all.

You can't say she's out of the lane AND the exception applies... the exception is for a runner who is IN the lane, and then because the base is not in the lane - takes her last step outside the lane in order to touch the base.

For a runner not in the lane initially, there's no exception.
Ok, got it now.
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 480
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
The rules say there's a difference. The rules simply say you must be in the lane to avoid an interference call. If you're out of the lane, and you interfere, it's interference ... UNLESS the interference occurs during that last step where you have to exit the lane to touch the base.

Further... what you are implying invalidates the entire purpose of the running lane.

Let me make sure I'm clear here... I'm not saying there shouldn't be an INT call on this play (frankly, I kind of think they missed this one). I'm saying the only excuse I can think of for not calling it is that the runner, from the POV of the PU, was in the lane when struck.
Whew, I thought you were supporting the no call...at first.
__________________
"We judge ourselves by what we feel capable of doing, while others judge us by what we have already done."
Chris Z.
Detroit/SE Michigan
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:21pm
Stirrer of the Pot
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Lowcountry, SC
Posts: 2,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
The rules say there's a difference. The rules simply say you must be in the lane to avoid an interference call. If you're out of the lane, and you interfere, it's interference ... UNLESS the interference occurs during that last step where you have to exit the lane to touch the base.

Further... what you are implying invalidates the entire purpose of the running lane.
Maybe I am out to lunch here. I always believed hindrance was ignored when the BR is in fair territory for that last stride in order to touch first base, and it really made no physical difference if the BR was completely in the lane, partially in the lane (e.g., her last two steps with her left foot hit the ground in fair territory), or all the way out of the lane before that ball reached the fielder and ended up hitting the BR.
__________________
"Let's face it. Umpiring is not an easy or happy way to make a living. In the abuse they suffer, and the pay they get for it, you see an imbalance that can only be explained by their need to stay close to a game they can't resist." -- Bob Uecker
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 02:31pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Katy, Texas
Posts: 8,033
Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Maybe I am out to lunch here. I always believed hindrance was ignored when the BR is in fair territory for that last stride in order to touch first base, and it really made no physical difference if the BR was completely in the lane, partially in the lane (e.g., her last two steps with her left foot hit the ground in fair territory), or all the way out of the lane before that ball reached the fielder and ended up hitting the BR.
I've never heard it taught that way.

If the runner is in the lane and then just on that last step, move in enough to touch the bag, A) the majority of their body is still in the lane and B) they are not preventing the fielder from stretching forward to receive the throw --- that last step is kind of behind the fielder.

If the runner is in the lane the whole way, it's likely their entire body is in the lane (although not the case in the video of the OP), AND they are preventing the fielder from stretching toward the throw to make the play.
__________________
I was thinking of the immortal words of Socrates, who said, 'I drank what?'

West Houston Mike
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Fri May 24, 2013, 10:40pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,204
My opinion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crabby_Bob View Post
In this Notre Dame/Pitt game at about 43:40, there is an uncaught third strike. The catcher retrieves the ball and throws from fair territory. (Correction: foul territory but on the fair side of 1BLX.) The throw hits the BR just over one step before the BR, who never was in the runner's lane, reaches first base. Why isn't there BR INT here? Not a peep from the coaches either.
I can't say why the coach did not come out to argue. The only thing I can see is that maybe the umpire didn't think the defense has a chance to get her at first given where she was, and were the throw was from the catcher, combined with the location of the first baseman.

Had the throw not hit the runner (if she had been in the lane for example), would F3 had been able to catch the throw?

I think in that case I would not have called the B-R out either because she, in my opinion (watching on a poor video look at it), did not interfere with a legitimate play being made on her.

It is close, but I think the umpire got it right.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Runner Interference/Batter Out? Spence Baseball 4 Wed Mar 27, 2013 05:19pm
Batter-Runner Interference Armadillo_Blue Baseball 11 Wed May 17, 2006 09:36pm
Batter Interference - Runner steal third? mike miles Baseball 14 Wed Jun 22, 2005 09:25am
Runner interference - Is the Batter Out? rinbee Baseball 1 Thu Apr 21, 2005 06:53am
Batter interference on runner scoring from third rinbee Baseball 1 Tue Apr 19, 2005 11:43am


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:52pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1