catching equipment

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Would we be required to "rule" on such a 2nd pitcher warming up issue that is occurring outside the confines of the playing field? If I glance over to DBT and see a catcher w/o a mask on, is that something that I really need to be concerned with?

Yes. Your legal responsibility and (therefore) liability starts when you can see it happen and do nothing. Knowing there is a rule to protect that minor and deciding to ignore it (for any reason) is, at least, negligence, and most likely a jury will consider as gross negligence.

In ASA, the requirement is universal, anywhere an umpire can see inside the complex. In NFHS, they can only legally warm up in the defined warm-up area which must be adjacent to the field and within the view of the umpires (FOR A REASON!!).

In NCAA, only a student-athlete catcher receiving the 5 warmup pitches at home plate is required to wear a mask.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

...In ASA, the requirement is universal, anywhere an umpire can see inside the complex. In NFHS, they can only legally warm up in the defined warm-up area which must be adjacent to the field and within the view of the umpires (FOR A REASON!!).

Where is this written in ASA or Fed?

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Yes. Your legal responsibility and (therefore) liability starts when you can see it happen and do nothing. Knowing there is a rule to protect that minor and deciding to ignore it (for any reason) is, at least, negligence, and most likely a jury will consider as gross negligence.

I do not make it a habit to scan the areas outside the confines of the playing field other than perhaps when considering things that might create DB situations for discussion in pregame. Although I might be able to see such an area, that doesn't mean I actually do see that area...which is not the same as deciding to ignore it and a far cry from being negligent.

Ok, so when I can see it happening outside the confines of the playing field (per Fed Case 10.1.2-A) I will instruct F2 to put on the approved protection. However, what if she ignores the instruction or what if see a repeated offense later - what penalty provision do I have as enforcement then?

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I do not make it a habit to scan the areas outside the confines of the playing field other than perhaps when considering things that might create DB situations for discussion in pregame.

If the area you're looking at may create DB situations, that's still well within the confines of the field.

The confines aren't just what's inside the fence. They also include areas outside the fence that players could use for warming up and are within your view. In other words, if you can see it, you have the authority to deal with it.

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Ok, so when I can see it happening outside the confines of the playing field (per Fed Case 10.1.2-A) I will instruct F2 to put on the approved protection. However, what if she ignores the instruction or what if see a repeated offense later - what penalty provision do I have as enforcement then?

Seems to me that the warn-n-restrict tool in your toolkit is quite appropriate. She would be violating rule 3-6-1 for failing to wear required equipment.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by Manny A

If the area you're looking at may create DB situations, That's still well within the confines of the field.

The confines aren't just what's inside the fence. They also include areas outside the fence that players could use for warming up and are within your view. In other words, if you can see it, you have the authority to deal with it.

I guess I have always thought that edge of DB territory is the outer limit of the "confines" of the field and I don't make it a point to look beyond that limit. Am I being underofficious because of this? {seriously asking, not trying to belabor the point}

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Where is this written in ASA or Fed?

NFHS 2-15, "Confines of the field".

When and where do you think you start and stop being an umpire? If that player looks up at you and shoots you the bird, and mouths "you suck", is she in your jurisdiction to eject?

What does the rule book say is the penalty any time a player or coach doesn't conform to what an umpire directs? Why do you need a separate or specific penalty if she refuses this directive?

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I guess I have always thought that edge of DB territory is the outer limit of the "confines" of the field and I don't make it a point to look beyond that limit. Am I being underofficious because of this? {seriously asking, not trying to belabor the point}

As it relates to game participants, yes, you are being underofficious.

As it relates to fans, parents, etc., you have it right.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As it relates to game participants, yes, you are being underofficious.

As it relates to fans, parents, etc., you have it right.

Got it, thanks

[UmpireErnie]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

Would we be required to "rule" on such a 2nd pitcher warming up issue that is occurring outside the confines of the playing field? If I glance over to DBT and see a catcher w/o a mask on, is that something that I really need to be concerned with?

Well..let me put it this way. After the catcher warming up the pitcher while not wearing a mask gets taken away to the hospital because she took a pitch in the face.. when you get called to a deposition for the lawsuit the parents file against the school, coach, league, umpire, and ball manufacturer and they ask you if you noticed the catcher taking pitches without equipment required by rule what are you going to say?

Obviously we are not focused that much on what happens off the field but if you see this happen, stop the game and require that the catcher wear the required equipment. Only takes a moment.

[Robmoz]

Originally Posted by UmpireErnie

Well..let me put it this way. After the catcher warming up the pitcher while not wearing a mask gets taken away to the hospital because she took a pitch in the face.. when you get called to a deposition for the lawsuit the parents file against the school, coach, league, umpire, and ball manufacturer and they ask you if you noticed the catcher taking pitches without equipment required by rule what are you going to say?

Obviously we are not focused that much on what happens off the field but if you see this happen, stop the game and require that the catcher wear the required equipment. Only takes a moment.

I get the point and will certainly take the moment IF i see it... but if I don't notice it, I certainly don't go looking for it either, behind the dugout, near the parking lot, or next to the porta-potee. In spite of what a previous poster says, that is not being underofficious (sp).

[chapmaja]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

I'll admit, I've never seen this - not once.

Must be nice not to see it. It is a regular occurrence in my area. I think I've had to remind teams of it in pre-game warm ups several times this season.

Normally it is JV teams.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Robmoz

I get the point and will certainly take the moment IF i see it... but if I don't notice it, I certainly don't go looking for it either, behind the dugout, near the parking lot, or next to the porta-potee. In spite of what a previous poster says, that is not being underofficious (sp).

This is where a BU needs to step up. Sometimes as a PU, the warm up area is behind or partially hidden by a dugout or the stands or...or...or...

From out in the field, the BU usually has a better view than the PU. If I notice a pitcher and catcher going out to warm up during the game, I will take a quick glance over there to make sure that the catcher is wearing the proper mask if necessary. If she is not, a quick word to the coach usually solves it. I don't make a big deal out of it or attempt to embarrass anybody, but I do make sure the rule is complied with.

Just to add...our area interpretation of "warming up" is if the pitcher is using her normal pitching motion, the mask needs to be on, even if the catcher is standing. If they are just tossing the ball back and forth using the overhand motion, the mask is not required. Anybody do anything different?

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Andy

This is where a BU needs to step up. Sometimes as a PU, the warm up area is behind or partially hidden by a dugout or the stands or...or...or...

From out in the field, the BU usually has a better view than the PU. If I notice a pitcher and catcher going out to warm up during the game, I will take a quick glance over there to make sure that the catcher is wearing the proper mask if necessary. If she is not, a quick word to the coach usually solves it. I don't make a big deal out of it or attempt to embarrass anybody, but I do make sure the rule is complied with.

Just to add...our area interpretation of "warming up" is if the pitcher is using her normal pitching motion, the mask needs to be on, even if the catcher is standing. If they are just tossing the ball back and forth using the overhand motion, the mask is not required. Anybody do anything different?

Thank you for documenting what I think and do for this.

I will not propose the rule change I started with.

[LIUmp]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

I think that is ridiculous.


(remember, you asked what I thought)

Agreed. No need at all.