100% sure.

[Little Jimmy]

Girl at bat. Pitch comes in high. Catcher doesn't jump up or block me in any way. Batter makes the slightest of movement toward ball but I'm 100% sure she didn't offer. Coach asks if he can get some help from my partner on that one. I say not on that one ( I actually think he's joking). He can't believe I won't ask field ump. I say there's nothing to ask. After a bit of moaning the game goes on.

My question is how many of you go to the field ump anytime your asked or are their times where you don't simply because there is no reason to. Just curious.

[Steve M]

I tell each catcher that anytime they ask, I will check with my partner - I won't "hear" it from a coach, but will from the catcher. It's a good political move and costs you nothing. While neither high school not ASA require that we check, I think you'll find that both recommend checking. If you get to college ball, you find that it is required to check every time you're asked.

Steve M

[CecilOne]

I believe in the courtesy of asking my partner for help whenever requested, but then there was my BU "partner" that called it a swing for the third out in the bottom of the seventh. Other umpires watching agreed we blew it, and it wasn't a swing.

[kono]

Do you go to your partner if you are working 2-man and he/she is in C (right handed batter)???? Or for that matter with a lefty and partner in A or B???

[SamNVa]

Kono,

I will go to my partner anytime the catcher asks me to, no matter where s/he is positioned, but we do have a deal hat s/he must be 100% sure that they saw a swing in order to call it a strike.

And yes, I have seen a swing in C position on a pitch that my partner called a ball.

SamC

[Steve M]

Kono,
Yup, I'll check with my partner on a check swing any time the catcher asks - doesn't matter which side of the plate the batter is on or what position my partner is in. Now, if there's a stolen base involved, I'll probably remind the catcher before I check that my partner was most likely watching the steal & moving into position for that. But if the catcher asks, I'll check.

Steve M

[Illeata Booga]

Yes. I will always go to my partner.

[Skahtboi]

I too, will go to my partner any and every time that I am asked to, regardless of where in the field they are. If I am working with a partner that I am unfamiliar with, I let them know this in our pre-game.

[WestMichBlue]

Opening statement: "Batter makes the slightest of movement toward ball but I'm 100% sure she didn't offer."

You're the PU. You are calling balls and strikes. Doesn't matter what anyone else in the ballpark thinks, only your call counts.

If the pitch is off the plate and the batter starts a swing and I am not positive of my call, I will immediately point to my partner and go with his call. If I am positive she committed, I'll call a strike and that's the end of it. But if I am sure she did not committ I will call (empahtically) BALL. Then catcher says "did she go, Blue?" I respond negative. Then she or coach asked me to appeal to partner. When I do he raises his fist!

Then I am standing there with my jaw dropped, feeling both foolish and angry. What makes his call anymore right or wrong than mine!

Question to anyone: Would you discuss with your partner a pre-game agreement that if PU makes the call, then is asked to appeal - that BU will not over-rule partner regardless of what he sees?

WMB

[BigUmpJohn]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
Question to anyone: Would you discuss with your partner a pre-game agreement that if PU makes the call, then is asked to appeal - that BU will not over-rule partner regardless of what he sees?

Interesting question.

You do want to back up each other, but you also want to get the call right as well.

I actually had this situation happen to me. It was the last the out in the game. I did feel foolish afterwards but I thought that it was better to get it right than missing it. I definitely thought she held up her swing. But, I thanked my partner after the game for changing the call and getting it right.

I'm a believer in getting the call right, so I don't think I would tell my partner to agree with me no matter what. If he thinks I'm wrong, then he should overrule me even if I made the original call. The cohesiveness between us may be damaged somewhat knowing that I may not be backed up on all my calls, but it is fixable. Just my opinion.

[Skahtboi]

WMB:

All clinics that I have ever attended have always said to honor the appeal in this situation, regardless of where in the field your partner may be. Not only do you do this as a courtesy to the players, but also as an attempt to ensure that the call is the right call. I have noticed that the vast majority of the time that I am sure the batter didn't offer, my partner has seen the same thing. However, if my partner over-rules, as you put it, my call, then I still have nothing to be embarrassed about. We simple saw two different things from two different angles.

[WestMichBlue]

"always said to honor the appeal in this situation"

That is not an issue in my question. Even though I've already called it, I will always honor the appeal.

"Not only do you do this as a courtesy to the players, but also as an attempt to ensure that the call is the right call"

The players don't want the right call, they want the call reversed in their favor.

"However, if my partner over-rules, as you put it, my call,"

This is the only situation where a partner overtly over-rules your call. In all other situations where there may be an issue with a call or rules application, you and your partner get together and discuss it in private. You end with a consensus ruling which, though it may over-rule the prior ruling, tells everbody you got it right. But the "did she swing" appeal simply changes the call - it doesn't make it right.

" We simple saw two different things from two different angles"

This is my point! The BU's view is different, but different does not mean right. From the bases I've seen a partial swing that PU called a strike and (in my mind) I say "you gotta be kidding!" And from the plate I know she didn't swing and the BU changes it to a strike. Due to the public nature of this appeal, the BU makes the call - right or wrong.

My position is that if I am not sure, then I will accept whatever the BU calls. But if I made the call, and I believe that it is right, then I don't want the BU over-ruling me. I think we need a pre-game agreement, or some sort of appeal signals that says "you make the call," or "I've got it, don't over-rule me."

WMB

[mick]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
I think we need a pre-game agreement, or some sort of appeal signals that says "you make the call," or "I've got it, don't over-rule me."

Call what you see, partner.
It ain't a big deal, either way.
This remains a game.
mick

[Andy]

The checked swing appeal is something that I always try to discuss pregame when I work with a new partner. I have worked with folks that tell me to call what I see , I have worked with folks that ask me never to overrule them, and I have worked with one umpire that tried to set up a code on whether they wanted me to agree with them or make the call based on the way they asked for the appeal.

What it boils down to is that the checked swing is not the top priority for the plate umpire, judging the location of the pitch is. Here is a link to a very good article on the subject:

http://www.cactusumpires.com/pages/s...nchor/priority

[nelyak]

In our association we are taught to go with the appeal HOWEVER, in the original question PU was 100% sure and we are taught that if that is the case we remove our mask and ask for help and that is our signal not to over rule.

A very good point is made in that if the PU thinks swing is checked, and BU thinks she went, add in an ump at 2nd and 3rd you may have a vote of 1-3, 3-1, 2-2, or 4-0, or 0-4 for checked swing. So what is really getting it right? It boils down to judgement, if you are 100% sure don't be overruled but ask for courtesy.