ASA Co-Ed Slow Pitch - Unsual Play

[DeputyUICHousto]

Female Runner on 2nd, male on 1st with no outs. Base hit to the outfield gap. Runner from 2nd comes to the plate with runner from first right on her heels. Throw comes to the plate. Female runner stays on her feet while male runner slides. Male runner's foot actually touches the plate before the female runner. Female runner then touches the plate no tag is made on either runner. What if anything do you have? Could there be an appeal? What if any appeal would/could you honor?

[PATRICK]

Trail runner, male, is out for passing preceding runner, female.

[Andy]

I have always been instructed that passing means being physically in front of the preceeding runner with your entire body. The play posted does not meet that criteria. I think I just have two runs scoring.

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by Andy

I have always been instructed that passing means being physically in front of the preceeding runner with your entire body. The play posted does not meet that criteria. I think I just have two runs scoring.

agree with this!

[SRW]

Originally Posted by Andy

I have always been instructed that passing means being physically in front of the preceeding runner with your entire body. The play posted does not meet that criteria. I think I just have two runs scoring.

Agreed.

[RadioBlue]

That was my initial instinct. Score two runs.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by PATRICK

Trail runner, male, is out for passing preceding runner, female.

While I confess that the OP is a conundrum... THIS ^^ is not correct, at all.

[DUNDALKCHOPPER]

So some of you are arguing the following: When is it legal for R2 to touch 2nd,3rd, or home before R1 does providing neither miss the bag/plate. Answer- it's legal all the time providing no complete passing of R1's body happens by Runner 2. An appeal would fail.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Andy

I have always been instructed that passing means being physically in front of the preceeding runner with your entire body. The play posted does not meet that criteria. I think I just have two runs scoring.

I think this kind of reasoning leads to a serious problem in the deep recesses of what could happen. And I think logically that a runner can be considered to have passed another runner without fully passing them if home plate is involved, but perhaps something in the book explicitly forecloses that though it would solve a lot of potential problems.

Here's a a slightly weirder take on the problem. Let's say the bases are loaded. R1 holds up thinking the ball will be caught in shallow right (beyond the ordinary effort of the infielders). R2 reads it as dropping and is at third when the ball falls. Both run home. The catcher takes the throw with her foot on the plate just after R2 scores and just before R1 reaches the plate. Does R2 scoring remove the force?

And here's a very very TW crazy take. Ball is hit to very very deep part of the field and caught by a player who falls doing it and makes a half hearted toss that doesn't get to the second baseman giving the runners plenty of time for shenanigans. R1 is off third without realizing she needs to tag but about halfway home gets yelled at and starts going back. R2 from 2nd having legally tagged has already rounded third though so R3 turns around to head toward home. For whatever strange reason, R2 slides between R3's legs and scores without passing R2. R2 then realizes R3 needs to tag
in a) R3 runs off to the dugout
in b) R3 retreats to second.

In either case, you've had a runner score while a lead runner remains on base. Is that an okay outcome?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by youngump

I think this kind of reasoning leads to a serious problem in the deep recesses of what could happen.

To this I agree, some serious TWP's could come from this...

And I think logically that a runner can be considered to have passed another runner without fully passing them if home plate is involved, but perhaps something in the book explicitly forecloses that though it would solve a lot of potential problems.

Something in the book does... the rule itself.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn

Something in the book does... the rule itself.

Yeah, without having my book handy I was hoping someone would point out what does. My question another way: is passing defined by rule or by interpretation?

[DeputyUICHousto]

Originally Posted by youngump

Yeah, without having my book handy I was hoping someone would point out what does. My question another way: is passing defined by rule or by interpretation?

in Rules Supplements under "Passing A Runner"

[youngump]

Originally Posted by DeputyUICHousto

in Rules Supplements under "Passing A Runner"

So it is. That leaves very little room for maneuvering. And since the definition of force doesn't include it coming off for a trailing runner scoring, I'm taking it you have an out in the first scenario I posted?