Twice in One Day

[AtlUmpSteve]

All the semantics and poorly worded rules and exceptions aside, the bottom line(s) is/are:

1) Softball rules at every level allow the retired batter to run to first base on a strike out; whether dropped or not, whether the batter is entitled to attempt to advance or not. ASA for one year passed a rule to make that a dead ball if/when it drew a throw, knowing it was being taught to simply confuse catchers, but there was enough outcry that this is an acceptable part of the game that the rule was reversed the following year.

2) Softball rules at every level make it the catcher's responsibility to know the game situation. (Of course, if their coach taught, or coached the catcher, that would be less of an issue.) But, the exception, rule reversal, and even the latest editorial change, poorly worded as it is, are clearly intended to make it solely the defense's responsibility.

3) If the catcher throws anywhere but to attempt an out on another runner, it is simply DMC (dumb move catcher). If the umpire judges a throw to 1st base was to pick off a runner, rather than an attempt to play on the retired batter, the umpire can/may rule interference if the retired batter interferes with that throw (in or out of the running lane). Otherwise, this is a completely legal way to attempt to confuse the defense.

4) The protection in that exception ends with running to first base. If that retired ( offensive player) then attempts beyond first base AND draws a throw, the exception no longer applies, and can (and should) be ruled interference.

5) The NCAA Manual and teachings now include the "safe" signal when it is a dropped third strike with entitlement to run (actually signalling the defenses's need to make a play to retire the batter-runner), as well as to verbalize (but not over-emphasize) "Batter is out", and make secondary hammer signal, if the batter appears to attempt to advance. It seems fair to me that if we are required to indicate when the batter-runner is entitled, then we should equally indicate when she is not. This, of course, is only since the Major League had issues in a big way just a few years back.

6) To my knowledge, neither ASA nor NFHS have firmly adopted any of #5 above; the general consensus appears to poo-poo the safe signal, but allow (but not require) the verbal "Batter is out" when the retired batter attempts to advance. It is clear that no organization desires "Batter is out" routinely; just if/when the apparent effort to run when already retired.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

Softball rules at every level make it the catcher's responsibility to know the game situation. (Of course, if their coach taught, or coached the catcher, that would be less of an issue.) But, the exception, rule reversal, and even the latest editorial change, poorly worded as it is, are clearly intended to make it solely the defense's responsibility.

Which brings me back to my OP. The irony of the situation was that not once, but twice, it was the runner at first, not the catcher, who became confused with the game situation. In both cases, R1 failed to realize she had no reason to take off. She saw her teammate take off for first base, and instead of ignoring it, despite my calling the batter out, she tried to advance and was easily thrown out.

I honestly cannot recall ever seeing this happen at such a high level of play. Instead of a DMC, I had a DMR.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Which brings me back to my OP. The irony of the situation was that not once, but twice, it was the runner at first, not the catcher, who became confused with the game situation. In both cases, R1 failed to realize she had no reason to take off. She saw her teammate take off for first base, and instead of ignoring it, despite my calling the batter out, she tried to advance and was easily thrown out.

I honestly cannot recall ever seeing this happen at such a high level of play. Instead of a DMC, I had a DMR.

I noticed you failed to mention the advantage the offense has in this situation, especially the runners at 1st and/or 3rd. You know, the person standing 8' off the line in foul territory who is supposed to know the rules and directed the runners accordingly.