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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 09:35am
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What do you have!

B1 hits the ball foul. She sees the ball is heading toward fair territory. She hits the ball again before it touches or crosses the foul line.

What is your ruling? ASA and FED.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 10:38am
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How then is it foul?
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 11:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
B1 hits the ball foul. She sees the ball is heading toward fair territory. She hits the ball again before it touches or crosses the foul line.

What is your ruling? ASA and FED.
ASA - Foul ball
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 11:59am
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It is Foul....

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringtownHawk View Post
How then is it foul?
Because the ball was hit a second time in foul territory. In FED you can get an out because the ball had a chance to go fair.

That was my point to the thread.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:05pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpringtownHawk View Post
How then is it foul?
Huh?
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:34pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA View Post
ASA - Foul ball
Do 7.6D-F only apply to the first hit? That seems reasonable enough, but it's not completely clear.

Last edited by youngump; Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 02:52pm. Reason: Correcting rule reference.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youngump View Post
Do 8.6D-F only apply to the first hit? That seems reasonable enough, but it's not completely clear.
Assuming you mean 7.6, yes.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:46pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
In FED you can get an out because the ball had a chance to go fair.
But only if the umpire judges it could have gone fair.

I find it interesting that ASA doesn't have a similar ruling.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 12:50pm
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So Do I but it is consistent

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
But only if the umpire judges it could have gone fair.

I find it interesting that ASA doesn't have a similar ruling.
ASA and all baseball and softball rule sets that I know of allow for the defense to touch a ball that is foul to prevent it from becoming fair. I guess ASA believes the offense should have the same right.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:09pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwest View Post
ASA and all baseball and softball rule sets that I know of allow for the defense to touch a ball that is foul to prevent it from becoming fair. I guess ASA believes the offense should have the same right.
Until you started this thread, I assumed ALL rule sets in both softball and baseball prohibited a batter from intentionally contacting a foul batted ball a second time if the umpire judged the ball could go fair.

How about this: Does ASA allow the BR to intentionally contact a foul batted ball with her bat or body as she's running up the first base line if it appears it's going to go into fair territory? If not, where's that consistency you mentioned?
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Until you started this thread, I assumed ALL rule sets in both softball and baseball prohibited a batter from intentionally contacting a foul batted ball a second time if the umpire judged the ball could go fair.

How about this: Does ASA allow the BR to intentionally contact a foul batted ball with her bat or body as she's running up the first base line if it appears it's going to go into fair territory? If not, where's that consistency you mentioned?
Um ... isn't this exactly the scenario we're talking about? (And yes, body is the same)
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 01:28pm
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mbcrowder beat me to it

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
Until you started this thread, I assumed ALL rule sets in both softball and baseball prohibited a batter from intentionally contacting a foul batted ball a second time if the umpire judged the ball could go fair.

How about this: Does ASA allow the BR to intentionally contact a foul batted ball with her bat or body as she's running up the first base line if it appears it's going to go into fair territory? If not, where's that consistency you mentioned?
Yes, the body is the same. The batter-runner is only out if they contact a fair batted ball before reaching first base.

See 8.2.F.4
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Last edited by rwest; Thu Jul 26, 2012 at 01:29pm. Reason: typo
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 02:15pm
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Quote:
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Um ... isn't this exactly the scenario we're talking about?
I thought Rules Supplement #24, where it says, "If, when the bat contacts the ball a batter’s entire foot is completely outside the batter’s box, the batter is out," would call for an Out in that case. The original scenario has the batter (I assume) still in the batter's box.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 02:47pm
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Yes, but...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I thought Rules Supplement #24, where it says, "If, when the bat contacts the ball a batter’s entire foot is completely outside the batter’s box, the batter is out," would call for an Out in that case. The original scenario has the batter (I assume) still in the batter's box.
There seems to be a contradiction because page 243 says the following....

Hitting the ball a second time....

"While making the dead ball call, review in your mind what you just saw. Then, ask yourself the question, did the second hit occur in fair or foul territory? If the answer is foul territory, the ball is foul and a strike is called on the batter. If the ball is fair, the next question you need to ask is whether the batter was in or out of the batter's box. If they were in the box, it is a foul ball and a strike is called on the batter. If the second hit occurred out of the batter's box, the batter is out."

Is there a distinction to be made between the ball hitting the bat a second time and the batter hitting the ball a second time? Do we need to be concerned with which object, the bat (and thereby the batter) or the ball initiated the contact. It appears the only time we get an out on the batter for contacting a ball is when it is a fair ball and they are out of the box. I believe RS #24 is referring to a fair ball.

Of course further down on page 243 we have these words....

Batted Ball off of a batters' foot:

2. When the batter is out of the batter's box:
b. Point to the play, give an out signal and verbalize "batter is out"

I am assuming that this is not from the initial contact. I am assuming that this is after the batter starts to run. I'm thinking this does not apply to the common scenario where the batted ball goes directly down and hits the batters foot. If the foot was out of the box at the time of contact the batter is out regardless if it hits their foot. Also, if the batter is running and it hits their foot in foul territory, I have a foul ball not a batter being out.
So a batted ball that hits the batters foot would have to hit the batters foot in fair territory for it to be an out. Also, if the batter is in the box and the ball is fair and they make contact with the ball, they are out.

The batter's box does not give them the right to come in contact with a fair batted ball.
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Old Thu Jul 26, 2012, 02:57pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Manny A View Post
I thought Rules Supplement #24, where it says, "If, when the bat contacts the ball a batter’s entire foot is completely outside the batter’s box, the batter is out," would call for an Out in that case. The original scenario has the batter (I assume) still in the batter's box.
That is referring to a completely different situation and is really only half of the situation it describes (RS4 should include that the ball is fair).
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