the 'evil' timed games (ASA)

[okla21fan]

Now that the clock has been a part of many Championship play games (ASA), what are (if any) rule citations or even umpire manual citations for 'stopping the clock'? And if there are none, (I cannot find any) and if we believe the clock can be stopped, what are some good guidelines to use and teach?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by okla21fan

Now that the clock has been a part of many Championship play games (ASA), what are (if any) rule citations or even umpire manual citations for 'stopping the clock'? And if there are none, (I cannot find any) and if we believe the clock can be stopped, what are some good guidelines to use and teach?

Personal opinion - Physical injury requiring on-field medical attention or field maintenance.

Everything else is up to the TD.

[RKBUmp]

As already stated, locally we are told the clock does not stop for anything other than field maintenance or an inury that requires additional medical attention and the player cannot be removed from the field. We get coaches all the time that will come out and want to argue a call at length and want the clock stopped.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by RKBUmp

As already stated, locally we are told the clock does not stop for anything other than field maintenance or an inury that requires additional medical attention and the player cannot be removed from the field. We get coaches all the time that will come out and want to argue a call at length and want the clock stopped.

I'll only stop the clock during an argument if it becomes obvious to me that he's arguing to kill some time - often, just the step toward the clock ends the conversation when they are not there for legitimate reasons. Did this once on a substitution, where it appeared to me he was obviously stalling.

I'll stop it on injury only if we need external help (medical personnel, etc). I would conceivably stop it on injury if I thought they were milking clock, but this has never actually come up.

And of course... no one has mentioned rain, probably because it's obvious.

[okla21fan]

In just 3 responses, (and how they varied). there appears to be a need for this to be address (and published) by the National Staff at the very least in the umpire manual. As a group, there seems to be a lack of consistency here.

and I am not really referring to 'stalling techniques', as when one introduces a clock to a game that was designed to be untimed, then inevitable will happen. We don't criticize the QB for minimizing offensive plays late in game by milking the play clock (for example). That being said, why should I (as the plate umpire) be concerned with a batter (or pitcher) maximizing time in-between pitches (as long as there is no violation)?

But when does an 'injury' become long enough to stop the clock? or
What about calling the UIC to the field for a protest? (some may only take a moment, others longer.

there just seems to be a need for a guideline (much like we have in the 'lightning/weather guidelines).

[BretMan]

The lack of uniformity on clock stopping issues has always bugged me.

It's even led to a few arguments on the field, with coaches pleading to either stop the clock or keep it running, depending on whichever is most advantageous to them at the moment. And when it comes up, you get the inevitable "but another umpire told us...", or, "that's not what they said in our other game...".

I've had different umpires try to tell me that "you always have to stop the clock for (fill in the blank)". I've had others tell me that you never stop it. I've had umpires from both camps try to back up what they're saying with "it's in the rule book" (no, it's not).

Until somebody comes up with a uniform set of guidelines, how and when to stop the clock will never be enforced uniformly. It will remain a troublesome "point not covered by the rules", subject to the whim of each individual umpire under the umbrella of Rule 10.

[IRISHMAFIA]

The clock is the TD's problem though the umpire is the enforcer on the field.

Personally, I'm all for limit plus one which ends all the BS, period.

[Manny A]

Why do we need uniformity through some sort of guidelines in the book? Umpires already vary in their judgments when it comes to rain, cold, darkness, etc. Some umpires will stop the game the moment it starts to rain, and others will keep playing until there are actual puddles on the field.

If ASA were to try to come up with certain standardized guidelines, that would open the door for abuse, IMHO. Suppose the book says "In timed games, clocks should stop when an injury requires intervention by emergency personnel." Don't you think head coaches are going to force the umpire's hand by demanding a trainer come onto the field to tend to a runner who suddenly "hurt" her ankle while sliding?

I don't have a problem leaving it up to the umpire to decide, through his/her game management skills, when time should and should not stop.

[MD Longhorn]

USFA has a rule I like (perhaps the only one, actually) that if a coach (either coach) calls a conference in the last 5 minutes of the game, the clock stops. Before they did this, it seems every coach would use his maximum number of conferences when it helped to do so - causing no end of grumbles and bad feelings on the other side. That's not softball. Now, with the rule - no one calls a late conference unless they actually need a late conference. Last tourney of 13 games, I stopped the clock exactly once for this.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

Why do we need uniformity through some sort of guidelines in the book? Umpires already vary in their judgments when it comes to rain, cold, darkness, etc. Some umpires will stop the game the moment it starts to rain, and others will keep playing until there are actual puddles on the field.

If ASA were to try to come up with certain standardized guidelines, that would open the door for abuse, IMHO. Suppose the book says "In timed games, clocks should stop when an injury requires intervention by emergency personnel." Don't you think head coaches are going to force the umpire's hand by demanding a trainer come onto the field to tend to a runner who suddenly "hurt" her ankle while sliding?

I don't have a problem leaving it up to the umpire to decide, through his/her game management skills, when time should and should not stop.

Suppose an umpire wished to get better at dealing with timed games. The only option right now is to ask another respected umpire. And that's not bad, but it's nice to empower umpires too by actually putting in writing some training on it.

[Manny A]

Originally Posted by youngump

Suppose an umpire wished to get better at dealing with timed games. The only option right now is to ask another respected umpire. And that's not bad, but it's nice to empower umpires too by actually putting in writing some training on it.

And if an umpire wanted to get better at dealing with darkness issues, where does he go to now?

I, too, prefer the "limit plus one" method. Instead of "no new inning after 1:20", make it, "one more inning after 1:10", and be done with delay tactics. The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by Manny A

And if an umpire wanted to get better at dealing with darkness issues, where does he go to now?

There are a number of such issues. (Though I think darkness is not high on the priority list.) I'd like my fix for all of them.

Originally Posted by Manny A

I, too, prefer the "limit plus one" method. Instead of "no new inning after 1:20", make it, "one more inning after 1:10", and be done with delay tactics. The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

Doesn't this just create the same incentive? I don't want to start a new inning at 1:09 and defend my lead for two innings. I'd rather stall and only have to protect one inning at 1:10.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Manny A

The other option to get those pool-play games in is to just make them five innings long.

Not conducive to time-sensitive play, like tournaments. I've had 5 innings in an hour ... and I've had 5 innings in 2:30. Especially in tourneys without a run rule, this can be a problem.

[Andy]

The issue is that softball is a game that is designed NOT to have a clock.

Time limits were introduced to keep tournaments on time. How many of you have been to an ASA national tournament where a time limit was used? Granted the level of play is much different than your average local weekend tournament, so the length of the game (timewise) is not usually an issue.

My opinion is that ASA, as a national governing body, resists introducing rules concerning a time clock since the game is not supposed to have one in the first place. The only thing covered in the book is when a the clock is supposed to start on a timed game. I think (my opinion) that rule was put in the book with great reluctance under some pressure.

Just from this post, we can see that there are different ideas of when the clock is to be stopped, just as there are to when it should be started, etc....

Trying to standardize this could be quite an undertaking...

[okla21fan]

Originally Posted by Andy

Time limits were introduced to keep tournaments on time. How many of you have been to an ASA national tournament where a time limit was used?

By 'Code' only 'B' Nationals can have a time limit in effect for Bracket Play. (however some 'A' divisions have a time limit for pool play) But that is really not the point. The point is that there can be and are time limits in 'championship Play' for all J.O. Divisions (including GOLD) when it come to National Qualifier Tournaments. whether you are I agree or disagree as to the merits of a time limits really is not the issue. As now, time limits are a fact of ASA Championship Play. That being said, and like Bretman stated, its the lack of uniformity and even rules citing is a problem.