Parent Looking for help AGAIN......

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by greg99

It does seem that R2 shouldn't be given home. She did touch 3rd before the ball was dead, but it wasn't a "legal" touch.

What do you think "legal" touch means?

[RadioBlue]

Originally Posted by greg99

It does seem that R2 shouldn't be given home. She did touch 3rd before the ball was dead, but it wasn't a "legal" touch.

Another question, How does the defense make a dead ball appeal?

Thanks for all the help.

I agree it seems to defy logic, that's the rule. But think of it this way: when a runner is running the bases and the ball becomes dead, a "snapshot" of the runners' position is taken. The only thing that matters is the ball became dead and now you need to know where the runners were at that moment.

MB is correct. Just give the proper awards and let the offense figure it out. A calm explanation to the DC might keep him/her in the game, but that's a big "might." Don't let the DC distract you from observing the runners. Umpires need to know exactly what they did during the dead ball awards!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by drh898

I don't see how R2 can be awarded home. A catch was made. The runner must go back to second to tag up before she can advance. How can you award her home after a caught fly ball. Logically, it seems to me, she can be awarded 3rd, IF she goes back to second first but not home because she didn't pay attention to the catch. What am I missing?

You're missing the exact verbiage in the rule. Everything you say is logical... it just isn't what the rules says. This is the reason I said it was stupid... I think ALL of us would consider the award of 3rd to be the most "fair" - but fair is not always what we're told to do by the rules at hand... and this case is one of those.

[drh898]

Originally Posted by Dakota

You are missing that the award is based on the last base touched at the time the ball becomes dead.

That is true, but it is not the base she can legally touch after the catch. she must start at 2nd after the catch before she can touch 3rd.

[JEL]

Originally Posted by drh898

I don't see how R2 can be awarded home. A catch was made. The runner must go back to second to tag up before she can advance. How can you award her home after a caught fly ball. Logically, it seems to me, she can be awarded 3rd, IF she goes back to second first but not home because she didn't pay attention to the catch. What am I missing?

>>" The runner must go back to second to tag up before she can advance."<<

Think about that a bit. Suppose she left early on any other fly ball out, rounded third and scored BUT WAS NEVER APPEALED what would the call be?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by drh898

That is true, but it is not the base she can legally touch after the catch. she must start at 2nd after the catch before she can touch 3rd.

Why?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by drh898

That is true, but it is not the base she can legally touch after the catch. she must start at 2nd after the catch before she can touch 3rd.

Yes she is subject to appeal for leaving early, but there's nothing illegal about touching 3rd. The rule is very clear here. (Ignore logic or fairness - they are out the window here). The rule says they get 1 base beyond where they were WHEN THE BALL GOES OUT OF PLAY.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by greg99

It does seem that R2 shouldn't be given home. She did touch 3rd before the ball was dead, but it wasn't a "legal" touch.

Another question, How does the defense make a dead ball appeal?

Thanks for all the help.

Which rule can you cite that says bases must be touched legally to be considered in awarding bases? The rules I read say based on their location at the time of ....... (the throw, the pitch, etc.).

Dead ball appeal; request and receive "time (if the ball isn't already dead), and any infielder (including pitcher and catcher), with or without the ball, tells the nearest umpire that they wish to appeal, and what they are appealing. If it is the wrong umpire, it should be relayed to the proper umpire to rule. Ball is dead, no runners can advance, no ball needs to be thrown, taken anywhere, tag anyone ..... Wow, how simple.

[EsqUmp]

If you think that giving the runner from 2nd home because she reached 3rd base is bad, consider this: R1 on 1st base thinks that there are two outs. The batter hits a long fly ball. R1 is off with the pitch and never even considers tagging up. In fact, she has already rounded 2nd base when the ball is caught. Now she is between 2nd & 3rd base when the outfielder releases the ball to 1st base and the ball goes out of play, R1 is awarded HOME!

Two bases from the time of the throw. R1 gets 3rd base and home.

I'm not looking to addresses "re-touching" or appeals. I just want to show you that by rule, sometimes runners may get more than what seemed fair. But then again, that's why we have appeals!

[drh898]

Originally Posted by JEL

>>" The runner must go back to second to tag up before she can advance."<<

Think about that a bit. Suppose she left early on any other fly ball out, rounded third and scored BUT WAS NEVER APPEALED what would the call be?

Ok, now that makes sense. I just had to get it straight in my mind. Thanks for the good discussion.