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Sat Jun 21, 2003, 07:35pm
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If MIke says that ASA wants umpires to use that black, then that's good enough for me, even though I had not called the black up 'till now.
But if a field is installed correctly, then the origin of fair territory is at the point where the two white sides converge, correct? So if the black is not used to define fair territory, then shouldn't it follow the same line of reasoning that the black should not be used to define the strike zone? That is, how can the boundaries of home plate be defined differently for separate applications? 
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Sat Jun 21, 2003, 11:31pm
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Regarding the original topic of the thread...
This happened tonight in a MLB game: Pirates vs. Indians which BTW went another 15 innings. No outs. Runner on 1B. Pitcher is up with a 1-1 count. Bunts a high pop up that F3 bobbles--touched in fair territory. The BR stops about 10 feet from the bag. R1 is still on 1B. F3 stands between the BR and 1B. F3 eventually steps towards 1B, tags it with his foot (replays show that he was actually a foot away from the bag), PU calls the BR out before F3 makes his play. I didn't understand it when I saw it, but that doesn't matter. From what I've read, the Indians could've had a double play by tagging R1 first and then touching the bag. If they would've touched the bag first, then R1 would've been safe. Am I right?
__________________
"If you want something that is fair in life, hit a ball between first and third base." John Palko Pittsburgh, PA
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Sun Jun 22, 2003, 07:51am
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Quote:
And that they don't include it because they have not caught on that they are supposed to? Or did you mean more than that?
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Sun Jun 22, 2003, 07:59am
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You are correct about the double play possibility, which is why on a full height fly with two forcible runners on, we have an infield(er) fly rule.
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Sun Jun 22, 2003, 03:43pm
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Quote:
__________________
"If you want something that is fair in life, hit a ball between first and third base." John Palko Pittsburgh, PA
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Mon Jun 23, 2003, 11:56am
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And if a field is installed correctly, three-quarters of second base is outside the diamond. What sense does that make? They call it the foul line and dead ball line, but they are considered in fair and playable territory respectively. The game is call "softball", but the balls are hard as a rock. Not everything is exact or logical in life, so why would you expect this game to be?
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The bat issue in softball is as much about liability, insurance and litigation as it is about competition, inflated egos and softball.
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 02:21pm
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"Let's face it, on pitches, most umpires give the black and then some. I certainly do." (clip from greymule)
Oh great, greymule, that's exactly what i've been afraid to hear all season long !!! Being my first year behind the plate, I haven't been very generous at all with pitches that don't catch a piece of the white section of home plate. Maybe some of those "come on Blue, that was over the plate!!" cries I've been hearing were right ????? My 2cents: I have a home plate and it measures 17" across the white portion. The black is extra. I wouldnt call the black perimeter part of the plate ... but read on: May I offer the possibility that purpose of the black perimeter is to make the edge of the actual plate more visible to the umpire against the sand/gravel/etc on which it rests? I know that at my clinic this year, the clinician suggested we call strikes for pitches that, in his words, "catch the paint". Like I said above, I haven't been doing that.
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bobbrix
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Tue Jun 24, 2003, 04:04pm
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Some clarifications are needed
The black is not dirt. It is plate. In slowpitch if the pitch hits the black it has hit the plate and should be called a ball. PERSONNALLY... as an umpire cover the black (at the back of the plate) with dirt and call strikes when the dirt is hit by the pitch. PERSONNALLY... leave the black at the sides of the plate visible - it makes for a wider plate and more strike calls. A pitch that hits the black on the side of the plate is well short and should be called a ball.
Original question about FORCE PLAY - in FED rule book see rule 2-24: a force play is a play in which the runner loses the right to the base occupied and is forced to advance because the batter becomes a batter-runner. This means the base occupied is not a sanctuary and the runner standing on the base is in immediate jeopardy (to be tagged out) - she/he must advance. If tagged while standing on a base from which they are forced to leave, they are out. This is true unless the force has been removed by tagging the base prior to tagging the runner. (You are correct BigJohnUmp.) This is more than JMHO. 
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"There are no superstar calls. We don't root for certain teams. We don't cheat. But sometimes we just miss calls." - Joe Crawford
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