NFHS - Umpire Responsible for Clearing bat
 

A fellow blue was informed during a game last night by a HS Athletic Trainer that the Plate Umpire was responsible, or better stated, required, to clear a discarded bat from home plate. Unfortunately, I have yet to receive my 2012 NFHS Rule Book but I didn't find any reference in last years or the Umpire Manual. Any thoughts?

I know of no association that REQUIRES the umpire to remove the bat. One philosophy is that if the plate umpire can safely, cautiously and carefully remove the bat, than he should do so. He can either hand it to an on-deck batter if that person is right there to slide it away. They are not, however, to do this unless they can do so safely, cautiously and carefully.

If R3 is coming home for a play at the plate, I won't likely be getting involved. If R2 is going to score on a hit to the outfield, there is generally enough time to remove the bat.

There may be a lot of "clones" out there afraid to do something that is not directed of them, but it is more negligent to leave the bat there when it can be removed safely, cautiously and carefully.

Every association I work with has told us to leave the bat alone. The bat becomes part of the field after it leaves the batters hands. If the catcher wants it moved, let them move it.

Several reasons have been brought up, the main one being the liability issue. If you move the bat and then someone trips over and is injured, more than likely the blame is going to go on the umpire for having moved the bat. I was also told of a case where an umpire kicked a bat out of the way and then was blamed for damage to the bat and a claim filed against him.

Agreed. Leave the bat alone.

Thanks for saving me the typing.

+1. I'm not touching a bat.

That bat may also be in the exact spot the coach directed it to be discarded!

It ain't my bat, I didn't put it there, I ain't gonna touch it!

Thank you for stating this so eloquently!

At our statewide meeting last summer for the Illinois HSA, we were specifically instructed NOT to touch the bat, or any equipment. Or the players, but that's a different thread.

I think I see a consensus developing. ;)

I won't even pick up the catcher's mask. You do something once and then not another time and you open up possible problems.

Yep, this is why I won't move a bat. If you do it for one team because the situation offered the time to do so, but then don't do it for the other team at the next opportunity (regardless of the situation, they aren't paying attention to that!) you might be accused of playing favorites, or whatever.

I agree with all the statements above as to reasons why NOT to move a bat!

That's why Umpires Umpire and Trainers..... well, train!:D

Now I see why the ESQ! You're an armchair attorney!

Do what your association/UIC tell you to do. Then you can at least blame them. I am wondering if they are willing to put into writing that you cannot remove a bat.

There is a clear history of not allowing removal of the bat. I will not debate that.

The standard by which to judge negligence (which would be the basis of any lawsuit in this type of situation) is whether the umpire acted as a reasonably prudent person.

Would a reasonably prudent person remove the bat if he/she could do so safely, carefully and cautiously?

Or would a reasonably prudent person leave a bat in front of home plate knowing that there is a significant chance that the runner will slide into it and possibly get entangled with the catcher?

While some may argue that someone may trip over the bat if the umpire moves it, I think that the chances of that and the result of the potential trip would be much less than the runner sliding into the bat.

Nothing will stop an umpire from getting sued anyway.

Do you have any record of any umpire, anywhere, ever getting sued for not moving a bat?

Not to say it isn't possible- anything's possible. But in all of the millions of games that have been played over the years, if this was a likelihood you'd think that there might be at least one example of it having happened.

Just saying, "You might get sued", might have a little more credence if there was some probability or precedence attached to it.

I am not touching the bat either. In my mind the on deck batter has the same amount of time and a lot less to do. If a coach wants a bat moved have the on deck batter do it.

I agree, don't touch the bat. Start doing that, and the next logical conclusion is chalking the lines yourself after every batter.

Interesting comment
 

If this the case, then the catcher and the on deck batter fall under the same "rules" regarding negligence. Are they not "prudent people"? Its unfortunate that our game has become such a litigious nightmare. Its a bat ball sport. Its also a non-contact contact sport. Occasionaly there is contact which can and does cause injury.

If the umpire picks up a discarded bat and tosses it towards the dugout and hits the on deck batter or a "bat boy" coming to retrieve the bat then he could be liable. If the umpire picks up the bat and so as not to injure anyone maintains possession of the bat then has to make a safe call at 3rd base, couldn't the bat slip from his hand and hit someone?

Just leave the damn bat alone! There are rules governing this very thing in the rule book.

1. I never said to toss the bat. Safely, carefully and cautiously removing the bat means that if there is time and the umpire won't interfere, the umpire can bend over, pick up the bat and drop it a few feet out of the way.

2. Bat boys are prohibited from entering the field during a live ball, especially if they are "boys." Remember the MLB play where a player's son came out onto the field during a live ball? Arguably, the umpire would be negligent if he allowed a bat boy to run onto the field if he could have prevented it. Obviously, that may not allows be possible because the umpires are responsible for other matters and the manager ought to be controlling his/her own dugout.

3. Umpires are in a different legal position than players or on-deck batters. Umpires owe a greater degree of safety to the participants than a catcher (particularly in amateur sports).

4. I never proposed running down to 3rd base with the bat. Again, that is not safely, carefully and cautiously removing the bat. That's running with a bat like an idiot.

5. You say, "There are rules governing this very thing in the rule book." What do you mean when you say "this very thing?" At best, there may be some general rules regarding discarded equipment that you can lump a bat into, but that doesn't appear to be very specific to me. Nor does it mention what an umpire should or should not do. I would appreciate a reference to a specific rule.

6. I don't shy away from a potentially effective/better mechanic just because there may be some umpire to doesn't follow it properly. Do you remember when in high school basketball they used to make the trail official hand the ball to the free-thrower and then run back into position? The associations were worried that the lead official may bounce the ball too hard and hurt the player. They thought that a rogue referee may fire the ball at the player. That sounds absurd now but it was a major concern for a while. The reality is that aside from good judgment, common sense and training, the lead official can still gun the ball (inappropriately) at the shooter. However, the basketball associations started to weigh the possibility of that happening over the benefit of letting the lead official bounce the ball. We all know that the lead can bounce the ball. So while I understand the concern that there may be a softball umpire who chooses to unsafely and carelessly hum the bat into the dugout or run up the 3rd base line and eject the bat has he/she calls the runner out at 3rd base, if that umpire is going to do things like that then I'm sure he/she is doing other things that may warrant him/her not being on the field in the first place.

You don't know what is going to happen next. If you move it a few feet out of the way, how do you know that a bad throw won't bring F2 a few feet out of the way right where you put the bat.

The offense discarded the bat. It is part of the field. If the defense wants it moved, they can move it. If the offense wants it moved, they can move it. If the umpire moves it, Murphy's Law says it will cause an unintended problem and the umpire will either get chewed out or some other problem will result. The umpire has better things to do than doing something the offense or defense should be responsible for doing.

There are times that I am more concerned about the on-deck batter, bat shagger or a coach being in the way than a bat.

Especially when they seem to appear out of nowhere because it is quite possible such a concern (which is quite valid) can be a distraction to the umpire and others.

Just to add my whatever the going price is these days for an opinion, don't touch the bat, or any other player equipment.

Right, although I was thinking of literally being in the way, collisions, blocking the catcher's access, etc.

If the bat is removed by the umpire then the on-batter wont appear there to remove the bat himself. It's gone already.

And while you are moving a bat that is covered by the rules as being a part of the field, are you truly paying attention to the action on the field and looking for any infractions?

Only if the umpire makes it disappear. :(

Does anyone have anything in writing from ASA/NFHS/NCAA or any other association stating "Do not remove the bat?"

From the majority of the replies, I think we can agree that there is a liability issue, even if we can't agree which is a greater liability. Since there is such a great liability issue, I think that there must be something in writing.

In writing, no. However, in numerous clinics and schools, we've been instructed by our State UIC to not touch the bat. That's good enough for me.

It troubles me that something that is covered in so many clinics and schools and has such great potential for liability is not in writing.

If I am sued (batter gets injured sliding into a bat) and need to justify why I didn't move a batter, I would like something stronger then, "I was told so at multiple clinics and schools."

I am NOT mocking your answer at all. I also don't doubt that this is what you were taught, as I've heard many people who agree with you.

I just find that type of teaching to be weak. When things aren't in writing, there's always the potential for denial.

I appreciate your honest answer even if I don't agree with the philosophy.

Do you take off your mask when you talk to coaches?

Where does it say whether you should take it off or leave it on?

Do you put your hand on the catcher's back when behind the plate? Why not? Where is that written?

xtreamump
 

Jim Evans covers this topic with great training. MOVE THE BAT !!!

Let me know when Jim Evans is in charge of umpiring our sport.

Where does it say anywhere 'in writing' of the converse? (about any detached equipment)

We are talking about liability, not respect. You're avoiding the question. If it is such a huge liability issue, why hasn't ASA written anything about it in its 50 page Safety Awareness Guide? Regardless of which method they prefer, I find it troubling that it hasn't found its way into a 50 page safety manual, rule book or umpire manual.

I always love this argument. Completely disregard what a MLB umpire who runs a national school says because he isn't a softball umpire. At least he put it in writing, which is more than I can say for the majority of softball codes.

"No, no, that's baseball. You can't do that." Guess what, 3 strikes and you're out and 4 balls and you walk also come from baseball.

The answer is simple....'the batter should have stepped over the bat, after all, she was no required to slid in the first place'

the defense rests your honor :p

One can start with the 30 foot difference in the base distance dimensions. Than go from there..... but I would ask, just where 'in writing' on the MLB umpire manual does it address this? (either way)

Exactly! Using his technique, umpires can help avoid liability. MLB umpires, who deal with players making millions of dollars, know the best thing to do is move the bat. They do it all of the time and they don't get in the way.

It is illogical to accept what other people are saying, which comes down to, "Don't move the bat because someone may get injured. Leave it in front of the plate where it is almost guaranteed to get in the way."

I'm glad that my torts professor wasn't an ASA clone.

The court finds in favor of the plaintiff. Pay up.

Again, there is an assumption of risk that typically covers the situation anyway.

Not only is softball the sport of discussion, it is NFHS.

And if you want to be really anal about it, softball more resembles the game Messrs. Cartwright, Spalding, et al misappropriated from our European ancestors. and like the other men of power in this country, they placed a face in front of it, only that face never even acknowledged any connection or knowledge of the game.

And even to that point, it more resembled what we now know as slow-pitch softball than any other game played in this country other than the game of Rounders presently played in North America.

Baseball is a different game on a different field with different equipment and, especially with MLB, different philosophies.

However, your reference to the little ball game explains a lot

I have no problem with Jim Evans, and I respect everything that he's done and accomplished.

But his sport is a completely different animal, and they treat their umpires accordingly. If he wants his umpires to clear the bats so that the marquee players making millions of dollars don't get injured, fine, they clear the bats.

My association says otherwise.

Jim Evans has a league/conference/assocaition of his own?

:p :D

Pretty much. He is one of two people granted the rights by MLB to write an professional baseball umpire manual to be applied to MLB. Likewise, he as one of two schools (Academy of Professional Umpiring) granted permission to train umpires to become professional answers. Additionally, he was the President of the Major League Baseball Umpires' Association - perhaps you've heard of this association.

Seems like a credible source to me. Certainly better than writing down some initials of someone at a local clinic.

Again, it is troubling that MLB cares about million dollar players more than ASA cares about minor/amateur athletes. I would think that a major league player is more capable of avoiding injury, based upon experience and judgment, than a 10u softball player.

Maximizing the Two-Umpire System on page 4, Section G-05
Clearing the Bat :D

Let me know what you think of his mechanic when you are done reading about it.

I should you mine, now you show me yours (ASA/NHSF/etc).

From Jim Evans' Manual

CLEARING THE BAT

1. With runners in scoring position, it may be advisable to remove a bat that may inhibit a runners slide or deflect a thrown ball to the plate. This is STRICTLY A COURTESY and not required mechanics. Your primary concern is to get in position for a play at the plate. If time permits, you may pick up the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field of play. Simply bend over, grab one end of the bat, and slide it forcefully from the field, do not kick or toss the bat in the air because people have been injured this way. Remember the acronym NAP that stands for NECESSARY, AVAILABLE, and POSSIBLE. Ask yourself is it necessary, available, or possible to move the bat.

great, so in a different game with different dimensions and timing. The confines of a softball field are also much tighter. Simply put, both are very different games.

Your hero above put it in CAPS. This is the very same theory as why is it not a good idea for some rec and 'beer' leagues who attempt to implement a 'sliding policy'. Because each play is different and each ballpark is different, stating that a procedure should be required (or even recommended) to be followed when it comes to detached equipment is a good idea how now?

Not to mention the fact that the umpire doesn't own or operate the field, game or equipment.

It the bat being in a certain place is a problem, maybe that should be addressed to the individual who placed it there. There is no rule requiring the batter to leave the bat in the area. For that matter, they can take it with them. If the teams have a problem with discarded equipment, they control that situation, not the umpire.

I guess if a catcher breaks a leg stepping into a hole dug by the batter, it is the umpire's fault because s/he did not fill it in before the catcher stepped up :rolleyes:

The entire argument is a joke, but then again.......https://encrypted-tbn1.google.com/im...TjYrZsq-895PNQ

Just to be clear, Evan's book is not "the Major League Umpire Manual". To present it as such is, at the least, misinformed, at the worst, just down right deceptive. The "MLBUM" is a separate entity that overrides any directive or instruction offered in "Maximizing the Two-Umpire System".

The book's title alone should should clue you in that it isn't the be-all and end-all for Major League Baseball, or even aimed at that audience. How many MLB games utilize the two-umpire system?

xtreamump
 

Jim Evans and the Little League Baseball/Softball Umpire School teach the same thing, Clearing the bat is a courtesy, if you feel that it is necessary, the bat is available, and it is possible for you to safetly bend over while watching the field grab the bat and slide it on the ground away from the area. Both schools have drills that teach Umpires how to do this simple task. Little things can make the difference of being good & being great. Do not be afraid of trying something new, it might work.

You specifically asked me if I had a citation from Jim Evans. Now that I provide it you childishly change the argument. If you want to say that it's okay for baseball but not softball because of field dimensions that is okay. But don't act like an immature baby after I give you what you were asking for. Maybe you only asked thinking I wouldn't have an answer. Obviously you were dead wrong. Now why don't you get me something in writing from ASA saying not to move it. I would still disagree with their philosophy and reason but respect the mechanic. I used similar language when saying when to move it as Evan's does in the portion you highlighted.

For now I will await a written ASA ruling. The people in this forum seem quite tight with the ASA elite so it shouldn't be long before you can get something in writing.

No one with a reading comprehension level skill above third grade would need your clarification. My language is careful, specific and accurate. I never said that it was the MLB manual.

To answer your other concern, the majority of MLB umpires use the two umpire system. There are multiple levels of MLB in case you weren't aware.

Maybe we should start calling 'location' around 2nd base as well, after all the little ball peeps do (all in the name of 'safety' I guess) And while we are at it, have the BU positioned inside the bags with runners on at the time of the pitch! :rolleyes:

When they make us start umpiring with "BB" on our backs, I'll move the bat. Until then, I'll make someone else do it. I'm guessing you serve concessions between innings as well ??

Oh, and don't forget pointing on our strike calls and calling "balk" on an IP! That'd be great, too!

We do not have the luxury of working a 4 man system.
I am lucky to have 2 umps sometimes.

Going back quite a way (as I am pretty old), have always been taught and followed to stay away, not my business, not my responsibility. Not necessarily due to liability.
Must admit there is a rare time I may have moved one but more often been screamed at when there is a play at the plate because I paid no attention and got ready and in position for my call. What if I am worried about the darned bat and do not get ready for my call?
The bat is low on my priority list as I usually have something to see, or somewhere to go that is more important.

In my world; the on deck batter is responsible to take care of his or her teammate. They are not real far away like at a Major stadium.If the catcher is a good Joe or it is in their way, they will get rid of it.

Evans, Brink man etc. sometimes forget that we are not in the bigs.

So because we don't own any equipment, we shouldn't check it? Don't we do that as a courtesy for liability purposes.

The argument is far from a joke. If you don't like the mechanic, so be it. But your fear of anything that contradicts your cloned mechanics is troublesome. You've never used the mechanic so you can't speak from experience.

Someone with "two world cups" probably has enough contacts with ASA to get a written ruling. I look forward to seeing it.

No, sorry, I'm not aware of any other levels of Major League Baseball beyond the one that calls itself "Major League Baseball" and operates thirty Major League Baseball Clubs under the umbrella of "Major League Properties".

The multiple professional levels below Major League Baseball are collectively known as "Minor League Baseball".

I've seen official Major League Baseball games using three, four and six umpires before. Which level of Major League Baseball uses two?

+1

Wow.

It's not in writing (that I know of) that I wear my hat with the brim forward, over my eyes when on the plate.

I think I'm gonna turn it around next time.

Wonder if I get anymore assignments when/if Wild Bill sees me.

I umpire baseball (NFHS) and fastpitch softball (NFHS, ASA, and USSSA). I am a structural engineer and therefore understand the legal arguments that ExqUmp is using to justify moving a bat or catcherr's mask, BUT there is a very BIG problem with his argument, and that is bats and catcher's masks are part of the Playing Field. And while we are required to conduct a pre-game inspection of the playing field for any safety issues, by rule bats and catcher's masks in the context of this dicussion are not safety issues per se.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

I'm glad to see someone else with some legal experience can contribute. I agree that those items do become part of the field. How do you think that plays into the duty to reasonably ensure a safe playing field whenever possible?

Oh, I have a feeling you will get assignments.....may not be to the games you expect, but there will probably be assignments. Now, go get us all a nice draught, will ya'? :D

Think it is too early to ask where ASA states you have too run the bases in a specific order to score a run?

The book does say that. It's under scoring. They even had to clarify it a few years ago regarding ITB.

Not true.

I guess you're right. So if we apply your logic in your original argument over the blatantly illegal softball bat (with the grip starting 4 inches from the knob), I guess the coach wouldn't be wrong to argue the BR could go to 3rd base first.

No wait, you're wrong. The batter-runner is out when...

You are right, NFHS does, but in "Touching Bases in Legal Order", not scoring. ASA has no such order listed. It was suggested a few years ago and dismissed as unnecessary as it would be obvious to the least intelligent person. Go figure.

And, BTW, Mr. Bliss, you are still clueless as it pertains to my raising the issue of "grip", but that does not surprise me as you "read" what you elect with minimal comprehension. I think sometimes, like many folks nowadays, you see certain words and make definitive assumptions instead of taking in the full context of the event.

Ump Esq

You strike me as a very young sophomoric umpire.

You are excused.

Bringing forward ideas that aren't mentioned by others does not make me sophmoric [sic] umpire. It makes me one who has had the opportunity to discuss softball with people from around the country, people who have different points of view and different experiences. Rather than having one or two groups or dictators spell things out for me, I can take and reject and learn from their and my experience.

Your sarcastic approval is unwanted and unwarranted.

You are excused for your "sophmoric" spelling.

Bringing forth new ideas is a wonderful idea, so long as the person presenting such ideas does so in a respectful and tactful manner.

Thank you my Friend.
Should have used spell check.
Have a good season.

It always amazes me how people think that just because they are unaware of something that it is a new idea or hasn't already been discussed or actually even tested or used.

Next thing you know, someone is going to want to require the wearing of gloves by the defense put in the book.

Just 51 weeks until we all get the opportunity to talk to umpires from all over the country.

Amazingly, you still miss the point. How is it that ASA writes a 50 page guide on safety and yet this still isn't covered. This is a more important issue than the majority of the dribble they publish in the guide. ASA is unwilling to devote a paragraph or two on this topic? That's rather disturbing. If it's that important, take a minute or two to write something about it.

Odd how umpires want to get involved with lineup cards more than safety issues.

Hmm. How many umpiring clinics has this trainer attended? I'll bet it's a number fewer than one...

Reminds me of the assistant coach who was certian his player colud not be guilty of OBS if she was chasing after a bad throw. "But Blue she HAS to have the right to go after the ball!"

Neither is NCAA or NFHS. (and every other softball 'alphabet' ) See a trend here? You think there might be a reason for this? :rolleyes:

here is a hint...... its a different game :eek:

Hmmmmmmmm
ASA does not consider this something they need to get involved with. NCAA does not consider this as something they want to be involved with. Nor do some/most of the major sanctioning bodies consider this as something worthy to be involved with. Here's a suggestion - submit a rule change suggestion. Until it is a rule, stop looking for boogers.

Or PONY, or USSSA, or...

But probably not in the "My Game/My Field Officials Assn." :rolleyes:

Sorry, Mike. That's one of the sanctioning bodies I'm not involved with.:D

xtreamump
 

If you do more than a few games' a year, you would know that this does not happen often. The point is please use common sence. Save a possible train wreck, with a simple task not covered the Softball manul moveing of the bat. I am a parent first & an Umpire second. As a parent I give you permission to at the very least try it. I did & it works. We can call balls & strikes at the same time. Or chew gum & walk for those that do not want to understand or try something new. Esqump keep up the fight, if we can get one of thease old-timers to try something new (WE WIN)

It shouldn't ever happen and any UIC who tells you otherwise, IMO, may not be qualified for the position and possibly teaching their own philosophy, not that of the organization they are representing.

I believe that will be changing in PONY for 2013. PONY - Protect Our Nation's Youth. We, as umpires, aren't doing that if we leave a three feet piece of metal in the players' way when we can reasonable do away with the obstacle.

There have been some articles written in Referee and Officiating.Com regarding bat removal. They often have two attorneys write for them as well. The attorneys screen issues dealing with safety. I cannot speak for them, but I highly doubt these articles would get past the editors if the attorneys disagreed with the teachings contained therein.

Again, most associations don't have 50 page manifestos on safety. ASA does. So why have they neglected this issue? If it is important enough to bring up in the 50+ clinics all the clones have been to, why is it not important enough for ASA to put in writing. Even if ASA says NOT to remove the bats, wouldn't ASA want to put that in writing so that they can at least say, "We tell umpires not to remove the bat. I don't know what that umpire was doing." I, of course, would disagree with that ruling but would likely go along with it since that's what ASA wants.

NCAA deals solely with older players. Though there may be a 17 year old thrown in there every so often, most of their players are legally adults and take on greater responsibility for themselves. Only without intelligence can one state that a 21 year old college athlete and a 10u player have equal ability to deal with obstacles on the field. With that said, even in NCAA I am moving the bat. They haven't told me not to and only a fool would leave it sitting there if they could reasonably remove it.

Stop thinking like an official and start thinking like an adult with common sense. "Gee, I can leave the bat in the way or I can remove it. I guess I'll leave it."

No one ever told me to remove my neighbor's garbage can from the middle of the street when the wind blew it over there. But I still moved it so that no one would crash into it. Anyone who told me that I was wrong to move it would be an idiot. There's no other way to put it. I could have left it - that wouldn't have been right but it would have been within my right to leave it.

I would love to cross examine the umpire who left the bat there and hear the only reason why he left it there was "Because a clinician at the ASA camp told me to." Good luck. I hope you have extra insurance. And even better luck getting the person from ASA who told you that to appear in court.

I sincerely doubt this.

Cross examine away, GFL :D

I cannot leave what I do not possess to begin. The umpire's job is to officiate the game which s/he cannot possibly do if not watching the ball or play.

The player is not required to, nor is it even suggested that, any equipment be discarded in the plate area or on the field for that matter. In ASA, it isn't even suggested that the bat be discarded at all as the player is permitted to maintain possession of the bat. Maybe we should start ejecting players for the unsportsman-like act of creating a public nuisance and endangering the welfare of the umpire, catcher, fielders backing up or covering the plate and other runners attempting to advance.

The umpire is the invited guest of the teams, not the other way around. Since when is the guest responsible for the host's shortcomings and inability to control their own actions? Well, in this country with all the ambulance chasers around, I guess some putz who reached the bench could see it that way, but that doesn't make it right, just additional fodder for the Ninth Circus Court of Appeals where everything except freedom, common sense and constitution apply.

xtreamump
 

If you can not officiate the game by watcghig the game "ball or play" and bend over and clear a bat. Mabee its time to watch the younger Umpires with new & better ways to get the job done. It is not a challenge, its just the right thing to do. There is Black, white, & a little common sence.

How odd... I'm 34, and I don't consider myself that "old." :rolleyes:

Don't kid yourself, I saw the 20 year plaque you posted on Facebook. :p Dave maybe it's time to give up those "xtream" [sic] sports like softball umpiring.

Yeah, but I started when I was 15! :D

I still can't believe it's been 20 years...

xtreamump
 

Now its understandable if you are 34 you are still climbing fool's hill. Try to do the best thing that you can for the game. You are not helping either team, you are making the area a better place for a potential play.

Uh oh...I think he just called you a whippersnapper.

The guy can't make up his mind, can he? :D

He's good for a laugh...

I kind of think you're making the opposing point here, you just don't realize it.

How is it that ASA/NCAA/NFHS have written long guides on safety, and you STILL think something that is not in there should be? Did it not occur to you that when 100 people out of 100 tell you that you are wrong, from near the very top of the food chain on down to us peons who attend as many clinics as possible (even after 18 years) and hear advice from literally hundreds of other people (each ... so now were talking potentially 10000 people) who also say EXACTLY the same thing... perhaps it is you, and not the 10000 people, who are wrong?

No, it is no more the right thing to do than is handling the ball or chatting up the MILF at the fence between innings.

I've got better things to do than someone else's job, like what I'm being paid to do and that doesn't include house keeping. Just maybe it is so black and white, you cannot use your common sense to see it from the gray of the fog you are in.

The revolution will not be televised.
Helter Skelter.
It is 1,2,3,4 what are we fighting for? Don't ask me I don't give a damn.
And the sign says "long hair freaky people not apply".

For some strange reason just felt like typing this.

Good point... but you're just a Bill, you're only a Bill. :)

xtreamump
 

House keeping ? Tell me what you would tell the "MILF" in the 4th inning when her 12 year old daughter breaks her leg tripping over a bat 3 feet away from the Dish, I will set up the play, R1 on 2nd base B1 hits a line drive into right field, the right fielder makes a great play & relays the ball home for a close call. R1 slides into the bat & breaks her leg short of the plate by 6 inches, the catcher tages her out. I can tell that you would not do those types of games but the same fog that I am in applys. All I can say is WOW.