Hitting at Pitcher

[busher63]

One of my fellow umpires had this situation last week and was unsure of the best way to diffuse things before someone got hurt. Open Men, ASA Class B level, after some verbal exchanges, batters from both teams start hitting the ball directly at the pitcher. The plate umpire theatened to call the next batter out who hit one up the middle. Both teams complained that the umpire could not tell them where to hit the ball and that they could not control where the ball went when it was hit. I don't by the last arguement, as 99% of the players at that level, that I have seen, can control the direction of the ball 99% of the time. Isn't there some rule somewhere that protects the pitcher in the upper divisions? I am real curious as I have the misfortune of calling these same two teams on Wednesday.

Thanks

[mo99]

There is no rule that I am aware of covering hitting the ball up the middle.I dont see how you could even justify using unsportsmanlike conduct(making a travesty of the game)to stop that.If I was the pitcher I would definitely keep the ball on the inside or outside part of the plate to reduce the chance of the ball coming back at him if he isnt a great fielding pitcher.

Jeff

[greymule]

I've done similar games, usually at high level. Sometimes they really get mad when the score is lopsided and somebody nails the pitcher. In the Trentonian Tournament last year (350+ teams), a pitcher at the top level was smashed in the foot by a ball off a Miken and hospitalized. We didn't have any trouble with that one, but there seems to be a code at the high level that you don't smash the middle, especially in a runaway. Even in the local leagues, the players apologize when they hit one past the pitcher.

The UIC meeting in March, we learned that some leagues in New Jersey were considering a ban on hitting up the middle. Another league had in fact banned running from the back of the box to the front of the box to hit the ball.

The consensus was that such rules should not be instituted. ("No hitting up the middle" is far too vague and could be thought to cover soft liners over the pitcher.) The players were correct: how can they tell you where to hit the ball? Also, since when is running up on a pitch necessarily dangerous to the pitcher?

They are trying to put bandaids on the severe problem slow pitch faces: the bats and balls are simply too hot for safe play. When you see top-flight players wearing lexan masks to pitch or play 3B, you know something is seriously wrong with the game.

When I played, the pitcher was a key defensive asset to your team. Now, they throw it and try to get out of the way.

[WestMichBlue]

you know something is seriously wrong with the game.

YES!

In Grand Rapids city rec ball this year pitcher's must wear masks! It's too bad when a pitcher starts feeling like a hocky goalie. Only his job isn't to stop the ball, but to get the H out of the way.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by busher63
One of my fellow umpires had this situation last week and was unsure of the best way to diffuse things before someone got hurt. Open Men, ASA Class B level, after some verbal exchanges, batters from both teams start hitting the ball directly at the pitcher. The plate umpire theatened to call the next batter out who hit one up the middle. Both teams complained that the umpire could not tell them where to hit the ball and that they could not control where the ball went when it was hit. I don't by the last arguement, as 99% of the players at that level, that I have seen, can control the direction of the ball 99% of the time. Isn't there some rule somewhere that protects the pitcher in the upper divisions? I am real curious as I have the misfortune of calling these same two teams on Wednesday.

Thanks

This is simple. Your fellow umpire should have kept his mouth shut with one exception.

When the verbal exchanges began, he should have called both managers to the field and talked to them alone. He should have informed them that they are to control the players and make sure they keep their mouths shut. Any further comments to or about the opponent or umpire and rule 10.9 will rear it's ugly head. Also, remind the managers that since it is their responsibility to control the players and if they fail to do that, there is no reason for them to remain in the dugout.

If they cannot figure it out, the umpire may get to go home early.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Pitching is a dangerous position. Was watching a womens slow pitch game several years ago. No anger and no intent but the batter hit the ball directly back at the pitcher. Hit her in the eye. And the poor girl lost her eye. That a rather shocking change in lifestyle for a beautiful 20 year old.

As greymule stated:

the bats and balls are simply too hot for safe play.

[oatmealqueen]

"Bats and balls" are the hottest topic in slowpitch it seems. JMHO, but I believe that the manufacturers have pretty much ruined the game the way it was meant to be played.
I just wish that one organization (ASA, NSA, USSSA, NF) would forget how much money that someone is making and fix the problem.
Many people will be hurt..or worse.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen
"Bats and balls" are the hottest topic in slowpitch it seems. JMHO, but I believe that the manufacturers have pretty much ruined the game the way it was meant to be played.
I just wish that one organization (ASA, NSA, USSSA, NF) would forget how much money that someone is making and fix the problem.
Many people will be hurt..or worse.

You're about 6 years late and a few changes short. ASA was the first to take a stand in July of 1997 when they dumped the titanium bats and began their program to begin testing bats and holding the bats at a certain level.

Last year, ASA proved they were serious when they banned a group of bats that did not meet specs even though the offered prototype won certification through testing. Then, another group a month later at the head of National Championship play.

USSSA has lived with the 1.20 BPF these years and have outlawed a number of bats though I'm not familiar with their testing.

NFHS is the only organization to adopt the ASA original scheme and stick with it.

NCAA basically follows ASA's guidelines.

Last July, ASA passed emergency legislation mandating a change in ball's COR and compression in SP so that the manufacturers would have time to get them into production for play this year. Next year, FP/MP join in the ball change.

The players are just as guilty as the manufacturers in this issue. They know the risks and many make up a bundle of excuses to justify their use of such equipment. The manufacturers are the ones who are gouging the players.

For once, the sanctioning bodies have been the level-headed ones in what many consider a crisis situation.

BTW, ASA has a conference happening this week which may result in the further banning of bats, most likely those of a composite structure.

[Dakota]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
USSSA has lived with the 1.20 BPF these years and have outlawed a number of bats though I'm not familiar with their testing.

According to a USSSA press release earlier this year, they banned all Louisville bats that were currently in production.

Why? Not testing.

It was because Louisville didn't pay the annual bribe, er, I mean, registration fee. After Louisville ponied up, all was well once again. Nothing changed wrt the bats. Only money changed hands.

Maybe not ALL sanctioning bodies are models of integrity.

[oatmealqueen]

BTW, ASA has a conference happening this week which may result in the further banning of bats, most likely those of a composite structure.

[/B][/QUOTE]



We can only hope that they will ban these composite bats.

[oatmealqueen]

For once, the sanctioning bodies have been the level-headed ones in what many consider a crisis situation.

[/B][/QUOTE]


I'm not sure that I would call the banning of the double walls, and then letting the hotter, more dangerous, (IMHO) Miken Ultra II a level headed decision.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen

For once, the sanctioning bodies have been the level-headed ones in what many consider a crisis situation.

I'm not sure that I would call the banning of the double walls, and then letting the hotter, more dangerous, (IMHO) Miken Ultra II a level headed decision.
[/B][/QUOTE]

I hate to say this, OMQ, but you do know not of what you speak.

ASA has never placed a ban on double-walled bats. They banned anything which did not meet the bat specifications. The Miken UltraII and the other composites were manufactured and tested in accordance with the specifications.

It had been rumored, and I believe they will find it true, that some of these composite bats begin to "breakdown" through usage. This does one of two things. Causes the bat to flake or self-destruct, or gives the bat more flexibility, thus taking them out of spec. The problem is that it is difficult to confiscate bats owned by others for secondary testing as those folks usually aren't going to give up such an expensive piece of equipment without a fight. And it's probably not very easy to replicate true game condition usuage through their testing.

I see about a half-dozen Miken Ultra IIs a night (until this week as the local parks & rec dept banned them). Most of them are well used. I know a couple of people who spent a good portion of the winter in the batting cages getting their bat "in condition" for the season. Those which I've seen just out of the wrapper do not seem that great, but those with a 100 hits or more seem very dangerous.

And, whether you like it or not, ASA must be careful when they make a decision to exclude certain previously certified equipment. U-trip and NSA dropped the Miken, but ASA is the one perceived to have deep pockets and they are the one who will be on the other end of the lawsuits. So, they pretty much have to get their ducks in a row before enacting such a ban.



[Edited by IRISHMAFIA on May 23rd, 2003 at 06:38 AM]

[oatmealqueen]

Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA

I'm not sure that I would call the banning of the double walls, and then letting the hotter, more dangerous, (IMHO) Miken Ultra II a level headed decision.

I hate to say this, OMQ, but you do know not of what you speak.



Mike
I've been accused of not knowing what I'm talking about before, so don't feel so bad.
I guess I'm a little discouraged about the whole bat/ball issue. I'm a league director, and ASA commish, with about 200 teams in my jurisdiction, and every night presents new problems.
We've banned composites from COED, getting close to banning from other leagues.
Has anyone caught any flak from leagues that have banned?

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen

I hate to say this, OMQ, but you do know not of what you speak.



Mike
I've been accused of not knowing what I'm talking about before, so don't feel so bad.
I guess I'm a little discouraged about the whole bat/ball issue. I'm a league director, and ASA commish, with about 200 teams in my jurisdiction, and every night presents new problems.
We've banned composites from COED, getting close to banning from other leagues.
Has anyone caught any flak from leagues that have banned?

Okay, then you probably do have a decent idea of what I am stating, but it certainly didn't sound like it from the previous statement. My apologies if you may have been offended.

I do understand the frustration and, no, where it has been banned there have been zero complaints in my area. For that matter, a couple of people who use them have even admitted they need to go.

I think the only people who will complain are those who have had their egos expanded through the additional power provided by these bats and will lose that edge when the bat is gone.

My response is, "TOO BAD!" A true player doesn't need it to know how to win ballgames.

[oatmealqueen]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by IRISHMAFIA
[B]

Originally posted by oatmealqueen

I hate to say this, OMQ, but you do know not of what you speak.



Mike
I've been accused of not knowing what I'm talking about before, so don't feel so bad.
I guess I'm a little discouraged about the whole bat/ball issue. I'm a league director, and ASA commish, with about 200 teams in my jurisdiction, and every night presents new problems.
We've banned composites from COED, getting close to banning from other leagues.
Has anyone caught any flak from leagues that have banned?

Okay, then you probably do have a decent idea of what I am stating, but it certainly didn't sound like it from the previous statement. My apologies if you may have been offended.


Mike,
I'm not easily offended.
Sometimes I speak with my gut instead of my brain.
I do agree with your post 100%.