Ground Rules/Pre-Game Coaches' Conference

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Then why make a sequential list that says to take the home team line-up first and the visitor's second, or to even differentiate between "home" or "visitor" at all in relation to taking the line-ups?

Actually, I don't. I am most likely take the first line-up offered. I will look to the home coach, but if s/he isn't ready to hand it to me and the other is, that is where I go. But someone wanted a list.......

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by EsqUmp

I can only predict that you are referring to questions about the specific ground rules and not a free for all about rules interpretations right? After all, it called the ground rules / coaches' conference and not a clinic.

If I feel it's relevant to the specific game I'm about to call (and not baiting me into confirming that one of my fellow umpires screwed them on a call in their previous game), I'll answer the question. I'll give some leeway to the coaches, but I won't let it be a free-for-all.

One or two quick questions, in my opinion, do not hold up the plate conference enough that I should decline to answer them.

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by BretMan

Then why make a sequential list that says to take the home team line-up first and the visitor's second, or to even differentiate between "home" or "visitor" at all in relation to taking the line-ups?

The original reason is that at one point, teams would occasionally want to dictate match-ups; either our #1 vs your #1 and #2 vs #2 because we think we can beat you both games, or our #1 vs your #2 because we DON'T think we match-up well. When that happened, someone had to be required to turn in the lineup first, since they were both waiting for the other team to go first.

So, to avoid the cat-and-mouse-game, the home team was required to turn in first.

With that understanding, when they plan to play based one what they plan to do, rather than wanting to see what the other team does first., the order makes no difference.

[Dutch Alex]

Originally Posted by Steve M

Missed you this year at the cup, Sander

I've missed myself not only this year on the Cup
Since my son started playing rugby (he's 9yr old) 5 years ago, I have difficulty in winter time to make some time free for softball.
I shall not be surprised if my wife starts to make problems in summertime about me umpiring in softball...

I've seen some pic's on the site from our national teams: Dutch Women Softball Teams - Official Website
Looked like you had a good time as group of umpires. Jealous? Yes!!! For not being there.

[KSRef]

At our State H.S. rules meeting last night (Kansas) we were instructed to record the number of bats we inspected before the game. At the home plate conference we are to advise the coach of how many bats we checked and ask him/her if that is correct. "Coach we checked 10 bats is that all of them?" With the increased penalty for players using illegal bats (player AND coach ejection) they want to be sure the coach has an opportunity to let us know if we got them all.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by KSRef

At our State H.S. rules meeting last night (Kansas) we were instructed to record the number of bats we inspected before the game. At the home plate conference we are to advise the coach of how many bats we checked and ask him/her if that is correct. "Coach we checked 10 bats is that all of them?" With the increased penalty for players using illegal bats (player AND coach ejection) they want to be sure the coach has an opportunity to let us know if we got them all.

Yeah, but too many coaches/players have figured that out. They bring out 12 bats for inspection, pull out 3 hot bats when you leave the dugout, and put 3 other bats back in the bags.

I'm all for telling the coaches to take EVERY bat out of EVERY bag found in the dugout. I won't reach into the bags to verify, but all I have to do is tap the back of the bag to tell if there's something else inside.

I don't buy that "oh, we won't use that bat today" crap. Just wait until the 4th or 5th inning when they're down by 5, and it magically appears.

But that's a whole different topic for another thread.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by KSRef

At our State H.S. rules meeting last night (Kansas) we were instructed to record the number of bats we inspected before the game. At the home plate conference we are to advise the coach of how many bats we checked and ask him/her if that is correct. "Coach we checked 10 bats is that all of them?" With the increased penalty for players using illegal bats (player AND coach ejection) they want to be sure the coach has an opportunity to let us know if we got them all.

I believe this college mechanic to be a waste of time and effort. A courtesy check is more of a passive deterent, but has minimal effect on anyone who wants to cheat. Counting and recounting is like throwing good money after bad.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

Yeah, but too many coaches/players have figured that out. They bring out 12 bats for inspection, pull out 3 hot bats when you leave the dugout, and put 3 other bats back in the bags.

I'm all for telling the coaches to take EVERY bat out of EVERY bag found in the dugout. I won't reach into the bags to verify, but all I have to do is tap the back of the bag to tell if there's something else inside.

I don't buy that "oh, we won't use that bat today" crap. Just wait until the 4th or 5th inning when they're down by 5, and it magically appears.

But that's a whole different topic for another thread.

And I'm all for doing what Fed baseball is doing beginning this year - no inspection. The responsibility belongs entirely to the team. Use an illegal bat? OK, I have a book rule to handle that. ASA and all the other sanctioning bodies want us to inspect the bats - it's a worthless as background checks.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Steve M

And I'm all for doing what Fed baseball is doing beginning this year - no inspection. The responsibility belongs entirely to the team. Use an illegal bat? OK, I have a book rule to handle that. ASA and all the other sanctioning bodies want us to inspect the bats - it's a worthless as background checks.

Well, NFHS is a different animal as the coaches are acting in loco parentis and do have the authority to speak for the minor.

The bat check is a bit of preventive maintenance, but as noted before, if someone really wants to cheat, there isn't much that can be done about it.

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Steve M

And I'm all for doing what Fed baseball is doing beginning this year - no inspection. The responsibility belongs entirely to the team. Use an illegal bat? OK, I have a book rule to handle that. ASA and all the other sanctioning bodies want us to inspect the bats - it's a worthless as background checks.

It won't prevent the real cheaters from getting those bats into the game, but it's a good procedure to help keep bad equipment off of the field. And by "bad equipment," I mean bats that have cracks in them or bats that aren't on the Approved Bat List.

[Steve M]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

It won't prevent the real cheaters from getting those bats into the game, but it's a good procedure to help keep bad equipment off of the field. And by "bad equipment," I mean bats that have cracks in them or bats that aren't on the Approved Bat List.

OK, I'll ask further - why is it my job to do that. It's like a lock - it may keep those who are honest honest - but there's no guarantee. Once the game starts, my eyes are on the field, not looking for equipment changes in the dugout/bench area.
Don't misunderstand, I do the inspections, as completely and thouroughly as possible - but I disagree that it should be my job in the game. Especially since I have a book rule that covers violations

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by Steve M

OK, I'll ask further - why is it my job to do that. It's like a lock - it may keep those who are honest honest - but there's no guarantee. Once the game starts, my eyes are on the field, not looking for equipment changes in the dugout/bench area.
Don't misunderstand, I do the inspections, as completely and thouroughly as possible - but I disagree that it should be my job in the game. Especially since I have a book rule that covers violations

Because ASA says it's our job as part of the pre-game equipment inspection.

In FP, the bats aren't nearly as big an issue as they are in SP. SP just seems to have a lot more problems with players trying to sneak in equipment that doesn't belong, so we check 'em before the game.

[BretMan]

Slow pitch is worse than fastpitch for illegal/altered bats. It's also much worse than high school baseball. The funny thing is there was never much talk at all about bat doctoring in HS baseball- until recently when they tightened up their bat specs to make them less lively. In all of the baseball pre-game equipment inspections I've done over the years, I have tossed two bats. One had a big dent and the other had tape forming a cone grip flush with the knob.

Last night at our first HS baseball meeting, in discussing the new bat rules the rules interpreter asked if anyone knew what a "rolled bat" was. Of the two hundred umpires in attendance, maybe 25 raised a hand. Obviously, 25 guys who have been around the game of softball for awhile! The instuctor went on to talk about bat rolling as if it was some new-fangled invention.

Another funny thing- HS baseball has updated the "Equipment" section of their rule book to include a definition of each separate part of the bat- the handle, the grip, the taper, the barrel, etc. Sound familiar? I think that they should be paying ASA a royalty for swiping their rule format.

Last night, when our interpreter mentioned that baseball has eliminated the pre-game equipment inspection, it actually invoked applause. THANK YOU NFHS for getting rid of this silly requirement, keeping the umpires out of the dugouts and putting the responsibility for legal equipment where it belongs- with the coaches.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by KSRef

At our State H.S. rules meeting last night (Kansas) we were instructed to record the number of bats we inspected before the game. At the home plate conference we are to advise the coach of how many bats we checked and ask him/her if that is correct. "Coach we checked 10 bats is that all of them?" With the increased penalty for players using illegal bats (player AND coach ejection) they want to be sure the coach has an opportunity to let us know if we got them all.

In AZ, we request that the team have all of their bats and helmets put outside the dugout for inspection. It is not required, but most teams do it. Umpires are instructed not to enter dugouts to inspect equipment, if a bat or helmet is seen inside the dugout, we politely ask the coach to bring it out for us. If the response is "Oh, we don't use that bat", we let it go.

Personally - I'm with Steve...this is the coach's responsibility and I have a rule book that tells me what to do if the rule concerning bats is violated.

[tcannizzo]

Here is the ultimate solution. And a money maker for somebody.
Require that all bats have a bar code, and the umpire with a bar code scanner. Not sure that bat was checked? Just scan it. Illegal bats would immediately be flagged.