Stealing on catcher's obstruction

[greymule]

In Fed, if a runner on 2B is stealing when the catcher obstructs the batter's swing, the batter is awarded 1B and the runner is awarded 3B. If the runner on 2B is not stealing, she stays at 2B.

I can't seem to find a parallel ruling in ASA. Does anybody know for certain whether ASA gives the runner 3B?

As I remember, ASA does award home to a runner stealing home on a catcher's obstruction play.

Also, does anyone know whether the coach gets his choice of the obstruction or the result of the play if the ball is not hit? Example: Runner on 3B, not stealing. Batter swings and knocks the catcher's glove off. Ball goes back to the screen and the runner is able to score. Even though the batter did not hit the ball, does the coach get to choose the result of the "play"? The consensus on the baseball thread was that the coach does NOT get a choice, and the runner has to go back. But ASA may be different.

ASA Rule 8, Section 1D, EFFECT 3: If all runners, including the batter-runner, do not advance at least one base, the manager has the option to take the result of the play, or have the obstruction enforced by awarding the batter first base and advancing all other runners only if forced.

So, the only way that R1 on 2B can get 3B is by the manager taking the result of the play.

Yes, you are correct about the runner stealing home being awarded home. The batter also is awarded first base on the obstruction.

Hope this answers your questions.

[greymule]

Thanks, Sergio. That's what I thought, but I was wondering whether something further might be lurking in some POE or case book play.

What about if the batter is obstructed but does not hit the ball? Can the coach take the result of the "play" in that case? Or maybe that's not considered a play.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Thanks, Sergio. That's what I thought, but I was wondering whether something further might be lurking in some POE or case book play.

What about if the batter is obstructed but does not hit the ball? Can the coach take the result of the "play" in that case? Or maybe that's not considered a play.

The coach always has the option of accepting the play unless the BR reached 1B and every active runner advanced one base (from that occupied at the TOP) safely.

Greymule,

Mike is correct. On catcher's obstruction, manager always has the option of taking the result of the play or the penalty for catcher's obstruction.

So, in your example, if manager elects result of play, run counts and batter has a strike called on her. If manager elects the penalty, then runner is returned to 3B (unless they were forced to advance) and the batter is awarded 1B. Right Mike?

[greymule]

Thanks for the information. I brought this up partly because I was wondering about it recently, and partly because the same question came up on the baseball board and the tentative wisdom seemed to be that if the batter doesn't contact the ball and create a "play," then the coach does not have a choice.

Of course, baseball and softball may differ, but it would be an interesting difference.

It seems to me that not offering the coach a choice could penalize the offending team.

The baseball thread is under "Catcher's Obstruction" and was started by "thumpferee."

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by VaASAump
Greymule,

Mike is correct. On catcher's obstruction, manager always has the option of taking the result of the play or the penalty for catcher's obstruction.

So, in your example, if manager elects result of play, run counts and batter has a strike called on her. If manager elects the penalty, then runner is returned to 3B (unless they were forced to advance) and the batter is awarded 1B. Right Mike?

It sounds ridiculous to some, but maybe the manager wants to give his HR hitter another shot. Or maybe the advance of a particular runner was more important than the strike.

And besides, you just never know what those coaches may do.

[Newter]

Hey guys. What about ASA 8-1D Effect 4b?

"The catcher or any other fielder shall not: b) On a swing or attempted bunt, touch the batter or his bat with a runner on third base trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal. --> The runner shall be awarded home plate and the batter shall be awarded firest base on the obstruction. <-- The ball is dead.

Looks to me like Effect 3 says if the runner on third base is NOT stealing, then, they must stay at third if not forced. Effect 4b says if the runner in stealing, then, you award them home.

Or am I missing something?

Newter

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Newter
Hey guys. What about ASA 8-1D Effect 4b?

"The catcher or any other fielder shall not: b) On a swing or attempted bunt, touch the batter or his bat with a runner on third base trying to score by means of a squeeze play or a steal. --> The runner shall be awarded home plate and the batter shall be awarded firest base on the obstruction. <-- The ball is dead.

Looks to me like Effect 3 says if the runner on third base is NOT stealing, then, they must stay at third if not forced. Effect 4b says if the runner in stealing, then, you award them home.

Or am I missing something?

Newter

This is why I always ask folks to not set up a second different scenario within a thread addressing the original. This all started with a runner on 2B. Now we are talking about a runner on 3B, running or not running.

The rule above is meant to not penalize the offensive team if CO is the ruling. Under the standard CO, this runner would NOT be allowed to score if the manager accepts the CO instead of the play. With this ruling in place, the manager is not forced to accept the result of the play to get the run.

For example, if there is a runner on 3B which breaks for the plate, the catcher jumps up in front of the batter and intercepts the pitch, and may likely tag the runner out. Well, under the standard CO ruling, the runner would have to return to 3B, hence taking a possible run away from the offensive team via a rules violation.

Hope that helps.

[greymule]

Sorry, guys. I erred in my original post. In both ASA and Fed, runners advance only if forced on catcher's obstruction. Under both codes, even if my runner on 2B had been trying to steal 3B, she goes back to 2B if the obstruction penalty is invoked.

This is what I get for studying too many rule books. I was confused because in Fed baseball, runners who are stealing on the pitch get the base they were advancing to (and the batter gets 1B).

Both Fed and ASA softball do allow a runner stealing home to score, and the batter goes to 1B, for the reasons Mike explained.

Thanks for your answers to the other question: The coach can elect to take the result of the play even if the batter didn't hit the ball. The obvious case of that would be the winning run scoring from 3B.



[Edited by greymule on May 15th, 2003 at 10:58 PM]

PHEW!!! Glad we got that one straight.....