Deflected Ball Interference/Obstruction ? NFHS / ASA rules difference

[HugoTafurst]

Had this play:
R1 on 2nd
Ground ball to F1 deflected off her glove towards F6
R1 bumps into F6 as she is going for the ball.
I hesitate (brain grinding), but due to the deflection, I signal obstruction.
R1 is safe at 3rd and BR safe at first.

Defense (properly) starts to come out (obviously to question the call) but then gives a "nevermind" look and goes back to his dugout.

When teams switched and I am over in the A position 1st base coach asks if the call was obstruction because the ball was deflected.
I, of course, answered, "Yes".

I didn't let him know that I was "pretty sure", but not 100% convinced.


I finally got a chance to look it up and it appears that in ASA, this was the correct call:

8-7-J (4): The runner is out when a runner Intentionally interferes with any defensive player having the opportunity to make an out with the deflected batted ball.

NFHS, however appears to make an exception for a ball deflected off the pitcher :

2-47-3 INITIAL PLAY. A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she:
a) Has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched.

And

8-6 The runner is out when:
-10 (a) The runner interferes with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball.

You probably knew that, just thought I'd go through the posting process to burn it into my mind. High School season is starting soon.

[soundedlikeastrike]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Had this play:
R1 on 2nd
Ground ball to F1 deflected off her glove towards F6
R1 bumps into F6 as she is going for the ball.
I hesitate (brain grinding), but due to the deflection, I signal obstruction.
R1 is safe at 3rd and BR safe at first.

Defense (properly) starts to come out (obviously to question the call) but then gives a "nevermind" look and goes back to his dugout.

When teams switched and I am over in the A position 1st base coach asks if the call was obstruction because the ball was deflected.
I, of course, answered, "Yes".

I didn't let him know that I was "pretty sure", but not 100% convinced.


I finally got a chance to look it up and it appears that in ASA, this was the correct call:



NFHS, however appears to make an exception for a ball deflected off the pitcher :



And




You probably knew that, just thought I'd go through the posting process to burn it into my mind. High School season is starting soon.

I'm not familiar with ASA at all, lots' of U-Trip. I would think the OP would be int. in every discipline?

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'm not familiar with ASA at all, lots' of U-Trip. I would think the OP would be int. in every discipline?

As for ASA, sorry, forgot to mention that the colllision was not intentional.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

As for ASA, sorry, forgot to mention that the colllision was not intentional.

Good call for ASA. Don't know how you teach a runner to not look at the ball, but expect them to change course when the ball is rerouted by a fielder.

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Had this play:
R1 on 2nd
Ground ball to F1 deflected off her glove towards F6
R1 bumps into F6 as she is going for the ball.
I hesitate (brain grinding), but due to the deflection, I signal obstruction.
R1 is safe at 3rd and BR safe at first.

Defense (properly) starts to come out (obviously to question the call) but then gives a "nevermind" look and goes back to his dugout.

When teams switched and I am over in the A position 1st base coach asks if the call was obstruction because the ball was deflected.
I, of course, answered, "Yes".

I didn't let him know that I was "pretty sure", but not 100% convinced.


I finally got a chance to look it up and it appears that in ASA, this was the correct call:



NFHS, however appears to make an exception for a ball deflected off the pitcher :



And




You probably knew that, just thought I'd go through the posting process to burn it into my mind. High School season is starting soon.

You had it right for ASA....and am pretty sure for NFHS......at least I would have called it that way......

Joel

[Gulf Coast Blue]

Originally Posted by soundedlikeastrike

I'm not familiar with ASA at all, lots' of U-Trip. I would think the OP would be int. in every discipline?

That is one of the many areas where U-Trip screws up.

Joel

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by Gulf Coast Blue

You had it right for ASA....and am pretty sure for NFHS......at least I would have called it that way......

Joel

Nope, this is INT in Fed. OBS in ASA.

[Tex]

NFHS:
Not enough information in play description to determine if an initial play is being made. Therefore answer will be given for both: with and without an initial play being made.

With an Initial play being made:

2-47-3 INITIAL PLAY ... A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she:
a. Has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched.
b. Has a reasonable chance to catch the ball in flight or catch the ball in flight after it touches another fielder.
c. Fails to gain control of the batted ball and is within a step and a reach (in any direction) of the spot of the initial contact.

If any of the above is true, use Rule 8-6-10 (The Runner Is Out) ... The runner interferes:
a) with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball.
PENALTY: The ball is dead and the runner is out. Each other runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. When a runner is called out for interference, the batter-runner is awarded first base and credited with a fielder's choice.


Without an Initial play being made (Deflective Ball):

Use rule 8-8-6 (Runner Is Not Out)... A runner is hit with a fair batted ball after it touches, or is touched by, any fielder, including the pitcher, and the runner could not avoid contact with the ball. Play on.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by Tex

With an Initial play being made:

2-47-3 INITIAL PLAY ... A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she:
a. Has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched.
.

My question would be, "why is the pitcher redirecting the batted ball excluded?"

Like I noted, we have all been raised to not watch the ball, but run to the base while watching and listening to your coach(es).

R1 leaves 1B, sees F4 head toward middle, then all of a sudden, change direction by 150 degrees and runs right at the runner. I just cannot see placing the onus on the runner to adjust to the defense because the pitcher failed to stop the ball.

[BretMan]

I don't get the exception for the pitcher there either. But it's in their rule and in their case book...still don't like it.

I had a deflected ball play come up this weekend. Runner on first, ground ball hit to F4. Ball takes a hop and catches her in the chest, then rolls several feet away, directly in the baseline and directly toward second base. F4 turns and chases the ball and gets to it just a the runner gets to her. They get tangled up and F4 bobbles the ball a couple more times. By the time she controlled it, the runner had reached second and stopped.

Defensive coach starts crying for an interference call because his fielder was "fielding the ball". Sorry, coach...nice try...

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by Tex

NFHS:
Not enough information in play description to determine if an initial play is being made. Therefore answer will be given for both: with and without an initial play being made.

With an Initial play being made:

2-47-3 INITIAL PLAY ... A fielder is considered to be making an initial play on a fair batted ball when she:
a. Has a reasonable chance to gain control of a ground ball that no other fielder (except the pitcher) has touched.
b. Has a reasonable chance to catch the ball in flight or catch the ball in flight after it touches another fielder.
c. Fails to gain control of the batted ball and is within a step and a reach (in any direction) of the spot of the initial contact.

If any of the above is true, use Rule 8-6-10 (The Runner Is Out) ... The runner interferes:
a) with a fielder attempting to make the initial play on a fair batted ball.
PENALTY: The ball is dead and the runner is out. Each other runner must return to the last base touched at the time of the interference. When a runner is called out for interference, the batter-runner is awarded first base and credited with a fielder's choice.


Without an Initial play being made (Deflective Ball):

Use rule 8-8-6 (Runner Is Not Out)... A runner is hit with a fair batted ball after it touches, or is touched by, any fielder, including the pitcher, and the runner could not avoid contact with the ball. Play on.

FWIW:
8-8-6 has nothing to do with the play as described.


I thought:

Ground ball to F1 deflected off her glove towards F6
R1 bumps into F6 as she is going for the ball.

Would be enough to describe the NFHS Inital play.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by BretMan

I don't get the exception for the pitcher there either. But it's in their rule and in their case book...still don't like it.

I had a deflected ball play come up this weekend. Runner on first, ground ball hit to F4. Ball takes a hop and catches her in the chest, then rolls several feet away, directly in the baseline and directly toward second base. F4 turns and chases the ball and gets to it just a the runner gets to her. They get tangled up and F4 bobbles the ball a couple more times. By the time she controlled it, the runner had reached second and stopped.

Defensive coach starts crying for an interference call because his fielder was "fielding the ball". Sorry, coach...nice try...

Did you call obstruction?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

FWIW:
8-8-6 has nothing to do with the play as described.


I thought:


Would be enough to describe the NFHS Inital play.

Yeah, me too.

[Tex]

Did not read how far the ball traveled toward F6, (1 foot, 2 feet, 5 feet, 10 feet, etc.???). All we know is that the ball went toward F6. Beyond a step and a reach from the first touch spot, 8-8-6 is used.

[BretMan]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

Did you call obstruction?

Unfortunately, only in my mind.

I'm all for calling obstruction and signalling it whenever you see it, even when it's inconsequential to the play and won't have an award attached to it. If you see it...call it.

But what happened on this one was they tangled up really close to second base, I paused about a split second to make sure I saw what I thought I saw, in my mind I said to myself, "That's not interference", and a split second later the runner was stopped on the bag and the fielder was standing next to her holding the ball.

Essentially, the play ended before I could throw my left arm out. About a second later I thought to myself, "I should have signalled obstruction". I guess I could have thrown my arm out at that point, but the play was over and it seemed kind of moot.

Then the coach started in on me...I did explain to him why I didn't call interference and why it would be obstruction.