SB - Two BR Baserunning Calls

[CecilOne]

I know what I think about these unrelated plays, but just for discussion and education:

1) Infield playing in, expecting bunt and the batter bunts almost in front of the plate, but toward 1st. First baseman and catcher start after the ball. BR carefully steps around the ball, then looks up and realizes charging 1B is in her path, tries to step aside but they collide anyway. Catcher is yelling "I have it", picks up the ball and throws to first. Was the 1B "fielding the ball", based on initial effort or did catcher calling for it take that away?

2) BR hits back to pitcher, who throws to 1st. The 1B muffs throw and it bounces off her toward foul ground on the home plate side of 1st. As she steps in front of the BR to go after it (but hasn't reached it), 1B and BR collide about 3 feet from the base. BR gets to 1st before 1B can retrieve the ball. Is the 1B still "about to receive" or attempting to catch the ball after the muff or is it just a collision with no call?

[TwoBits]

1) I'd have to see the play to see how far away the first baseman was from the ball, but the way you describe it, I've got runner out on interference.

2) Again, I'd have to see it, but I think you've got no fault on the BR. Maybe obstruction, but in this case, I'd only award the BR first.

I'm speaking FED rules here.

If I'm wrong, please correct me with rule references.

[Dakota]

Both of these are HTBT...

In 1) you've got to decide which fielder you are protecting. You can't protect both.

batter bunts almost in front of the plate, but toward 1st. First baseman and catcher start after the ball. BR carefully steps around the ball, then looks up and realizes charging 1B is in her path

I'm visualizing that the ball died practically in front of the plate, or at least closer to F2 than F3, even with F3 playing in ("... batter bunts almost in front of the plate..."). I'd probably protect the catcher. F3, then is guilty of obstruction.

In 2), timing might be the key to the call. From your description, I will assume there was no hint of deliberate crash on the part of the BR. Also, since the collision was 3 feet from the bag, I will assume F3 did not move very far to try to retrieve the ball - more like reaching than running. If F3 is moving into BR's path giving BR no time to react, I've got nothin'. If BR had time to react, especially with a double base that she could have headed to, and BR continues to charge into F3, then I may have interference and BR out (the chance to make the out seems obvious.)

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by CecilOne
I know what I think about these unrelated plays, but just for discussion and education:

1) Infield playing in, expecting bunt and the batter bunts almost in front of the plate, but toward 1st. First baseman and catcher start after the ball. BR carefully steps around the ball, then looks up and realizes charging 1B is in her path, tries to step aside but they collide anyway. Catcher is yelling "I have it", picks up the ball and throws to first. Was the 1B "fielding the ball", based on initial effort or did catcher calling for it take that away?

2) BR hits back to pitcher, who throws to 1st. The 1B muffs throw and it bounces off her toward foul ground on the home plate side of 1st. As she steps in front of the BR to go after it (but hasn't reached it), 1B and BR collide about 3 feet from the base. BR gets to 1st before 1B can retrieve the ball. Is the 1B still "about to receive" or attempting to catch the ball after the muff or is it just a collision with no call?

HTBT, but...

1. Could very well be obstruction if anyone other than F3 is more likely to field the ball.

2. If F3 leaves the area where she attempted to receive the ball, the call would most likely be obstruction which is dropped the moment the BR becomes a runner unless the ball bounded far enough away that I believed the runner could have easily reached 2B safely.

The "about to receive" gives the fielder the right to be in the base path at that point, not carte blanche to run anywhere they please free of an obstruction call.

[Del-Blue]

From what I'm reading, It is I'm sure a HTBT play, but I think I have nothing at first on the missed throw, and probably OB on the first baseperson on the bunt.

[greymule]

I had a play similar to #2 a few years ago. BR hit a roller that F1 fielded 5 feet fair about 15 feet from 1B. F1, on the move, tagged BR, who had slowed somewhat to avoid crashing. But the ball popped out and rolled across the foul line. As F1 reached to pick it up, she and BR stumbled as their feet caught briefly.

I had no call, because the ball never left F1's immediate vicinity. F1's foot was on the baseline as she stretched into foul territory to pick up the ball and throw to F3 for the out. Had the ball been steps away, I would have had OBS, but it was close enough that F1 could grab it right away and make the play. But I admit that even today I'm not sure I got it right. Maybe Classic Sports Network will re-run the game someday and I'll get a chance to review it.

[CecilOne]

If you said obstruction on the bunt, would you award 1st base because of "can't be putout between the bases", even though the runner obviously would not have reached without the obstruction?

[Dakota]

Originally posted by CecilOne
If you said obstruction on the bunt, would you award 1st base because of "can't be putout between the bases", even though the runner obviously would not have reached without the obstruction?

Yup. Dems da rules! This was one of Mike's points in another thread on obstruction - you call it when it happens, not when you determine if it had an impact on the play. All kinds of woulda couldas here... if F3 had not tangled with BR, perhaps F3 & F2 would have tangled up trying to field the ball, among many other possibilities.

[Elaine "Lady Blue"]

I believe I have to agree with Tom (Dakota) on this play. I would think that from the way it was written, that F3 obstructed BR. BR goes to 1st.

The BR and F3 sounds like a train wreck, so I've got nothing.

[CecilOne]

from above:
"1. Could very well be obstruction if anyone other than F3 is more likely to field the ball.

2. If F3 leaves the area where she attempted to receive the ball, the call would most likely be obstruction which is dropped the moment the BR becomes a runner unless the ball bounded far enough away that I believed the runner could have easily reached 2B safely."

These were the actual calls, although I dropped the OBS in #2 as soon as the BR passed F3 and I'm still not convinced that F3 had finished attempting to catch the throw (the HTBT part). That doesn't make them gospel, but we generally seem to be together. BTW, I thought #1 was especially good for a rookie ump, and he also handled the coach's disagreement very well.

[kellerumps]

I've got vapor lock going for me right now....What does HTBT mean?

Please feel free to flame away at my temp ignorance.

[ChampaignBlue]

Had To Be There