New situation coming from NCAA rule change

[derwil]

New NCAA rule change this year (2012) - Runner leaving early is now a delay dead ball, DC chooses result of the play or an out.

R1 on first. Pitcher double touches (or for some other reason an IP is called - doesn't really matter) - IP called. At the same time the runner from 1st breaks towards second - DDB. Point is that they happen at the same time.

Now we have the IP and the RLE DDB. Both OC and DC have the option of the result of the play or accepting the penalty for the othere team's infraction, but which one takes precidence?

I don't like the new rule. Old rule was fine, this one opens up a can o'worms.

Thoughts???

[topper]

Originally Posted by derwil

Now we have the IP and the RLE DDB. Both OC and DC have the option of the result of the play or accepting the penalty for the othere team's infraction, but which one takes precidence?
Thoughts???

Leaving early.

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by topper

Leaving early.

Why?
The old way, (Immediate dead ball) maybe you could say she left early BEFORE the IP, so you have a DEAD BALL, NO PITCH, the IP never happened...

But with the new rule, you only have a delayed dead ball, so the IP Did occur.

I have not seen any guidance regarding on infraction taking precedence.

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Why?

Because you get an out with leaving early.

[topper]

Originally Posted by HugoTafurst

Why?
The old way, (Immediate dead ball) maybe you could say she left early BEFORE the IP, so you have a DEAD BALL, NO PITCH, the IP never happened...

But with the new rule, you only have a delayed dead ball, so the IP Did occur.

I have not seen any guidance regarding on infraction taking precedence.

The leaving early rule has not changed and doesn't state that the pitch must be legally delivered for the runner to be called out. I get where you're coming from, but IMO the rules, as written, seem to give precedence to RLE over IP.

[derwil]

Situation came from a conversation with a couple SEC umpires this past weekend. They said that some situations were not considered when the rule was decided to be revised. When the official text comes out later this year, it is expected to give direction for the posted situation. Right now, there is no official correct answer. I guess we'll wait for the ruling.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by derwil

Situation came from a conversation with a couple SEC umpires this past weekend. They said that some situations were not considered when the rule was decided to be revised. When the official text comes out later this year, it is expected to give direction for the posted situation. Right now, there is no official correct answer. I guess we'll wait for the ruling.

Of course, the easiest thing to do would be leave the rule alone, where it actually makes sense.

[Andy]

Originally Posted by Skahtboi

Of course, the easiest thing to do would be leave the rule alone, where it actually makes sense.

But you know as well as I do, that some NCAA coach somewhere got "screwed" out of a double play last year and pushed this rule through for the one time in 10,000 that it would come into play.....

[topper]

Originally Posted by Andy

But you know as well as I do, that some NCAA coach somewhere got "screwed" out of a double play last year and pushed this rule through for the one time in 10,000 that it would come into play.....

Yep. Ken Eriksen - USF, Team USA, and head of the NCAA softball rules committee.

[Skahtboi]

Originally Posted by Andy

But you know as well as I do, that some NCAA coach somewhere got "screwed" out of a double play last year and pushed this rule through for the one time in 10,000 that it would come into play.....

But of course. Just about the only reason there are rule changes in NCAA.

Originally Posted by topper

Yep. Ken Eriksen - USF, Team USA, and head of the NCAA softball rules committee.

Possibly....

[txtrooper]

I agree with Scott, but for the sake of discussion will I will take part. I believe that the DC would get the first option to take the result of the play or to enforce the leaving early. In the event that the DC took the result of the play we would enforce the illegal pitch. I have heard that NCAA may make the leaving early a dead ball when there are two outs.

[SRW]

This month's Referee Mag quotes D.A. ... effectively saying that we are supposed to enforce each in the order they occured.

[CajunNewBlue]

exactly what were were told at last weekends camp/clinic.... to enforce what happened first.

ummm... now i know why i have that coin in my pocket....
heads... U3 gets illegal pitch.... (stepping back off of pitching plate)
tails...U1 gets leaving early.... since they both happend simultaneously.

toss coach that comes out first!

only the instant replay on CST will know.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by CajunNewBlue

exactly what were were told at last weekends camp/clinic.... to enforce what happened first.

ummm... now i know why i have that coin in my pocket....
heads... U3 gets illegal pitch.... (stepping back off of pitching plate)
tails...U1 gets leaving early.... since they both happend simultaneously.

toss coach that comes out first!

only the instant replay on CST will know.

Was told the same thing at the eval camp I attended a few weeks ago.
Could become college softball's version of the double whistle in basketball on a drive to the hoop. Lead official has a charge, trail official has a block.
Either way you've got a PO'd HC.

[youngump]

Originally Posted by SRW

This month's Referee Mag quotes D.A. ... effectively saying that we are supposed to enforce each in the order they occured.

What if the runner who leaves early is on third and the IP happens first?