Pitcher uses deceptive motion

[greymule]

Once again, I am in the midst of the annual debate over a situation that never seems to get resolved. I have knowledgeable local ASA officials telling me that a SP pitcher commits an illegal pitch if he uses a motion intended to "deceive" the batter, even if the pitch is otherwise legal.

The particular pitch in question is the one in which the pitcher takes his pause with the ball in front of his hip and then makes a full revolution of the arm before delivering the ball. (This way he still delivers the ball on the first pass of the hip.) They argue that if a pitcher has used a conventional motion throughout the game, he commits an illegal pitch if in, say, the sixth inning, he suddenly adopts a different motion with the intent to deceive the batter. In other words, it's a legal motion if the pitcher uses it consistently, but an illegal motion if he uses it as a tool of deception.

I have argued that the book does not support such a ruling, and that therefore a pitcher can deliver pitches with 17 different motions as long as each motion is legal. They admit that there's nothing in black and white, but claim that "interpretation" has laid some sort of foundation for this.

Anybody know something I don't on this subject?

[oatmealqueen]

As long as a pitcher does not exhibit any of the requesites of an illegal pitch, they can do any goofy thing that they want to.
What rule are they basing their logic on?

[SamNVa]

SP means SLOW PITCH right? As in the ball has to go through this high loopy arc before it gets to the batter right? So how deceptive can a pitcher get? It's not like it's Eddie Feigner out there on the pitcher's plate.

SamC

[oatmealqueen]

Sam is right.
And what I said earlier is right.
In Slow Pitch the pitcher is on the low end of advantages.
If it's not in the definitions of illegal pitch, they can do all of the goofy things that they want.
How deceptive can a 10 foot high pitch be, from 50 feet away?

[CecilOne]

If you can justify the batter over reacting to the pitcher's motion in the eternity it takes a slow pitch to reach the plate, then please be my defense counsel if I ever need one.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by greymule
Once again, I am in the midst of the annual debate over a situation that never seems to get resolved. I have knowledgeable local ASA officials telling me that a SP pitcher commits an illegal pitch if he uses a motion intended to "deceive" the batter, even if the pitch is otherwise legal.

The particular pitch in question is the one in which the pitcher takes his pause with the ball in front of his hip and then makes a full revolution of the arm before delivering the ball. (This way he still delivers the ball on the first pass of the hip.) They argue that if a pitcher has used a conventional motion throughout the game, he commits an illegal pitch if in, say, the sixth inning, he suddenly adopts a different motion with the intent to deceive the batter. In other words, it's a legal motion if the pitcher uses it consistently, but an illegal motion if he uses it as a tool of deception.

I have argued that the book does not support such a ruling, and that therefore a pitcher can deliver pitches with 17 different motions as long as each motion is legal. They admit that there's nothing in black and white, but claim that "interpretation" has laid some sort of foundation for this.

Anybody know something I don't on this subject?

I don't like doing this, but if they want "interpretation", here it is in black and white:

2003 ASA Clinic Guide, Rule 6 - Pitching - Slow Pitch, Page 37:

RELEASE
1. The ball must be release on the first FORWARD swing of the arm past the hip.
2. The ball may not be released behind the back or through the legs.
3. The ball cannot be released from the glove.
4. The palm may be under or over the ball on the release.
5. The pitch must be of moderate speed.
6. The pitch must have an arc between 6 and 12 feet from the ground.
7. The pitcher may not continue the motion after the release of the ball.
8. There may be no stop or reversal of the forward motion.
(My emphasis)
9. The windmill delivery may be used.

You need further proof of interpretation? Check play 6S.3-4 in the 2003 ASA Case Book:

The pitcher comes to a one-second stop, then takes the ball in his pitching hand over the top of his head, down and around in a windmill type oaction, and releases the ball the first time past the hip.

RULING:Legal. A windmill delivery is legal if the ball is release the first time past the hip and all other aspects of the pitching rule are followed. (6S-3D; 6S-1B)

It does NOT say it can only be used if throughout the entire game. It does NOT say it cannot be used to possibly confuse the batter.

If that were the case, than these guys must believe that a pitcher who throws a 7'-8' arc for 5 innings all of a sudden throws a ball to 11', it must be illegal because they tried to deceive or confuse the batter. Same with the hand. If the pitcher suddenly changes from pitching the ball with his/her palm facing up, wouldn't it be a deceptive act to all of a sudden throw a pitch with the palm down and putting backspin on it?

I'm sorry, but being from North Jersey, these guys should know the only thing that holds foundations together are the bodies added to the concrete

[greymule]

Thanks, everyone. You have all reaffirmed my position. Legal is legal, illegal is illegal.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Whoooaa! That was deceptive, Blue. I think I dropped my jock.

Maybe these people should try that 16 inch softball game where the ball is giant (nearly the size of a volleyball) and actually is SOFT (you don't need, or even want to use, a mitt). Kickball is a good game too!

Honestly, some deliveries can seem a little deceptive but the batter should really watch the ball instead the little dance and arm waving that the pitcher performs for the 10 seconds it takes for the ball to arrive.

You were serious right when you suggested that some slow pitch umpires think that pitching can be deceptive and therefore illegal? Incredible.

I'm in need of a good moron picture to attach here.... no luck.