What's the Call?

[NCASAUmp]

Originally Posted by MNBlue

With your limited experience with fastpitch I'm guessing you have yet to see a batter bunt by completely giving up the bat? It is more common for older, speedy left handed hitters to use this type of bunting tactic. It isn't a common bunting style, but not completely unheard of.

You're correct, I've not seen it.

The thought of a 40-50 MPH pitch coming in and striking an uncontrolled bat in mid-air right in front of a catcher is, well, unnerving.

If discarding the bat in that manner to hit the ball hinders the catcher from making a play on the ball, would you not consider that INT under 8-2-F-5?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

If discarding the bat in that manner to hit the ball hinders the catcher from making a play on the ball, would you not consider that INT under 8-2-F-5?

I played almost 30 years and whenever I bunted [I always held onto the bat] I always tried to drop the bat in a position where I thought it would hinder the catcher from making a play on the ball. Never did get called for INT.

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by Tru_in_Blu

I played almost 30 years and whenever I bunted [I always held onto the bat] I always tried to drop the bat in a position where I thought it would hinder the catcher from making a play on the ball. Never did get called for INT.

DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL !

INTERFERENCE !


How was that?

[MNBlue]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You're correct, I've not seen it.

The thought of a 40-50 MPH pitch coming in and striking an uncontrolled bat in mid-air right in front of a catcher is, well, unnerving.

If discarding the bat in that manner to hit the ball hinders the catcher from making a play on the ball, would you not consider that INT under 8-2-F-5?

It's hard to visualize, but I have never had the bat even come close to interfering with F2, or more importantly, me!

The bat doesn't 'fly' when the ball hits it, it just pretty much falls to the ground.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

No, but it's engaging in a potentially and highly unsafe behavior on the field.

Mind you, I wouldn't use the same "knock that crap off" phrase to the player or coach.

Highly unsafe? Probably less unsafe than a regular base hit... who in the world is the batter going to hurt throwing his bat toward a pitch so bad he couldn't hit it otherwise? And the ball's not going to come off very hard. Why in the world would you consider this unsafe.

Let me take it a step further and remove the opinion out of it... don't you believe that if TPTB wanted such an action to be against the rules or considered it unsafe (especially considering some of the other safety rules out there), that TPTB would have put a prohibition of this action in the rulebook? What do you read from them not doing so?

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

You're correct, I've not seen it.

The thought of a 40-50 MPH pitch coming in and striking an uncontrolled bat in mid-air right in front of a catcher is, well, unnerving.

If discarding the bat in that manner to hit the ball hinders the catcher from making a play on the ball, would you not consider that INT under 8-2-F-5?

Honestly, if it was "in front of the catcher" ... then the batter didn't need to release the bat to reach it, right? This action is WAY WAY WAY less dangerous than simply flinging the bat after a full swing ... and THAT is not prohibited in any real ruleset. So why would this infinitely less dangerous act be?

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by NCASAUmp

The thought of a 40-50 MPH pitch coming in and striking an uncontrolled bat in mid-air right in front of a catcher is, well, unnerving.

40-50? Oh, you must still be working 12U.

[tcannizzo]

There is just something that doesn't seem right about this.
Couldn't this be considered Illegal Use of Equipment?
(Where ever Illegal Use of Equipment is defined...)

How about this definition:
BLOCKED BALL: A batted, pitched or thrown ball that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game, or which touches loose equipment or any object that is not part of the official equipment or official playing area.

But then contradicted here:
EQUIPMENT ON THE PLAYING FIELD.
Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or a detached part of a player’s uniform, other than that being legally used in the game at the time, should not be within live ball territory. Official equipment which may be in live ball territory with no penalty includes the batter’s bat, the catcher’s mask, umpire paraphernalia, a helmet which has inadvertently fallen off an offensive or defensive player during play or any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game. Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or detached uniform parts which are in live ball territory and are not being legally used in the game at the time could cause a blocked ball or interference.

And:
SPORTING BEHAVIOR
The values of softball competition are based on good sporting behavior and
fair play. The following are examples, although not limited to, of unsporting
behavior:
A. Uniforms not worn properly, such as jerseys not tucked in, sleeves rolled
under, and caps worn backwards.
B. Exposed undergarments of different colors worn by different teammates
on the same team.
C. Coaching tactics that endanger the safety of players.
D. After equipment check, illegal equipment being put back into play.
E. Use of equipment for other than its intended design.

WHY THEN is a defender penalized, but not an offensive player?
When a fielder intentionally contacts or catches a fair batted, a thrown, or a pitched ball with any part of the uniform or equipment that is detached from its proper place.
EFFECT: Delayed Dead Ball and the batter and runners are entitled to:
1. three bases from the time of the pitch if a batted ball,
2. two bases from the time of the throw if a thrown ball,
3. one base from the time of the pitch if a pitched ball

Just askin'.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

There is just something that doesn't seem right about this.
Couldn't this be considered Illegal Use of Equipment?
(Where ever Illegal Use of Equipment is defined...)

How about this definition:
BLOCKED BALL: A batted, pitched or thrown ball that is touched, stopped or handled by a person not engaged in the game, or which touches loose equipment or any object that is not part of the official equipment or official playing area.

But then contradicted here:
EQUIPMENT ON THE PLAYING FIELD.
Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or a detached part of a player’s uniform, other than that being legally used in the game at the time, should not be within live ball territory. Official equipment which may be in live ball territory with no penalty includes the batter’s bat, the catcher’s mask, umpire paraphernalia, a helmet which has inadvertently fallen off an offensive or defensive player during play or any equipment belonging to a person assigned to the game. Loose equipment, miscellaneous items or detached uniform parts which are in live ball territory and are not being legally used in the game at the time could cause a blocked ball or interference.

And:
SPORTING BEHAVIOR
The values of softball competition are based on good sporting behavior and
fair play. The following are examples, although not limited to, of unsporting
behavior:
A. Uniforms not worn properly, such as jerseys not tucked in, sleeves rolled
under, and caps worn backwards.
B. Exposed undergarments of different colors worn by different teammates
on the same team.
C. Coaching tactics that endanger the safety of players.
D. After equipment check, illegal equipment being put back into play.
E. Use of equipment for other than its intended design.

WHY THEN is a defender penalized, but not an offensive player?
When a fielder intentionally contacts or catches a fair batted, a thrown, or a pitched ball with any part of the uniform or equipment that is detached from its proper place.
EFFECT: Delayed Dead Ball and the batter and runners are entitled to:
1. three bases from the time of the pitch if a batted ball,
2. two bases from the time of the throw if a thrown ball,
3. one base from the time of the pitch if a pitched ball

Just askin'.

Your citations defeat your claim. The bat is being used exactly as meant to be used.

And when I played FP in the Navy, I often ran the box and left the bat in mid-air over the plate while I was running.

BTW, how is it a defender can throw the glove at a ball in foul territory to keep from rolling fair without penalty?

[Tru_in_Blu]

Originally Posted by CecilOne

DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL ! DEAD BALL !

INTERFERENCE !


How was that?

Hah! Waaayyyy too late! That horse left the barn a long long time ago.

Like a recent partner. After the batter hit a flat slow pitch, he finally called the illegal pitch. Batter didn't quite know what to do at that point.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Your citations defeat your claim. The bat is being used exactly as meant to be used.

I can go along with that. Just had to put it out there.

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

And when I played FP in the Navy, I often ran the box and left the bat in mid-air over the plate while I was running.

And you got to 1B before the bat hit the ground?

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

BTW, how is it a defender can throw the glove at a ball in foul territory to keep from rolling fair without penalty?

Same way a batter who bunted a ball that is in foul ground about to go fair and kicks the ball.

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by Steve M

I didn't see this happen this past weekend - but sure used to see it regularly in men's ball. Almost an "unfair" advantage for a quick left-handed batter.

Hmmmmm - maybe that's where the USC thought comes in...........

Doesn't seem unfair to me. The intentional walk is supposed to place the pitch out of reach of the batter. Tossing the bat, timing it correctly, to hit a fair ball would seem to require a lot of skill (or luck). If the batter can do that and defeat the intentional walk, good for him/her.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Same way a batter who bunted a ball that is in foul ground about to go fair and kicks the ball.

Oh, no, Mr. Strawman, the discussion here is based upon out-of-place equipment, not contacting a batted ball which isn't fair.

[tcannizzo]

If I only had a brain....

[jr131981]

FWIW

there used to be a subsection in 7-6 saying what the batter shall not do, but they have since removed that subsection. even in the old rule, nothing from the OPs description was listed.