Incident During NFHS Tournament

[whiskers_ump]

Had this incident occur during the first round of bracket
play in an NFHS tournament. Game is in ITB, R1 now on 3B,
after successful bunt by B2 whom reached 1B safetly on F1's
bad throw. R1 on 3B, R2 on 1B.
Coach yells from the bench to walk B3, which is done.
BR going to 1B, other runners are moving off their
respective bases. As PU, I am watching BR heading toward
1B, glance towards 3rd see runner moving towards HP. All
of a sudden I see defensive coach coming from her dugout
onto the field of play. R1 just under half way from HP. At
this point BU has seen defensive coach and "calls time."
Now offensive coach comes over from 3rd base coaching
box and wants to know "why time was called". Parnter
and I have meet. Must be stated at this point, this is
first year umpire.
My decision was allow R1 to score, R2 to 3rd and BR 1B
[which is all she would have gotten]. Ejected coach.

Should/could this have been handled any differently?

BTW I posted this on another board also since some don't go to both boards.

glen

[Steve M]

I'm getting lazy, here's what I responded over on eTeamz - via cut-n-paste.

If the coach has interfered by her presence on the field, that's the right call. I had something similar happen once(different sanctioning body), but the coach did not get in the way of any play(playing action taking place at 2B & coach was in play between 1B & the circle). Verbally I said something like, "Coach, get off the field during live ball." He did and we did talk after play stopped and time was called. My first words to him were "Coach, by coming onto the field during a live ball, I would have been perfectly justified in an ejection. Now, what exactly was the cause of your coming out like that."

If the coach has not interfered with the play by her presence within live ball territory, I think the book sez to let play continue and issue a team warning after playing action is done & time called. Seems to me that is in Rule 3, Section 3.

Steve M

[oatmealqueen]

Since "time" was called, ball was dead (FED rule 2-59)and unless coach interfered,(before time was called) your call would be incorrect.
Partner kinda screwed up by killing the play, had coach continued out without time being called, then other measures may have been taken.
Why the ejection?

[WestMichiganBlue]

Who has the ball? Why is R1 going to home? Why isn't someone tagging her out? Is she assuming that she is being forced to home? (She is not.) Am I missing something?

It is not unusual for a coach to be walking towards the field and asking for time after a walk. I watch for it when a pitcher has been struggling and has walked several. So I am ready to yell out "No coach, stay back until all runners settle." And this inciddent should have been anticipated. The coach had already taken action to load the bases; now you can expect him to want to meet with his infield to determine how they are going to play.

As far as the time call, it is obviously improper, illegal, immoral and everything else! But it was done so I see no alternative other than to stop play and return all the runners to the proper bases. You can tell the defensive coach that he blew it; because of him time was called and he lost his opportunity to make a play on R1 - which sounds like an easy out. And then he needs to be warned not to come on the field again until time is granted. And you partner gets talked to in the parking lot after the game.
WMB

[whiskers_ump]

Guys,

I will try and clear this up a bit.

The coach interferred with the offenses opportunity to attempt and get the
winning run home. We are in ITB no outs. Even if they do throw R1 out at the
plate, they still have two runners on with only 1 out and now the defense
has no opportunity for a double play. When the coach entered the field
of play, she did so between R1 and 3rd base. She not only confused R1, but in
my HMO, also her own pitcher whom for some unknown reason was watching BR going
to 1B. She had ball in circle towards 1B side and until BR reaches 1B we have
nothing. Runners can remain off base. She stated to us, my partner and I that
she "called time". I told her that we had not so therefore play was live,
I agree that my partner made an error, however, I felt also that there would
have been an attempt at scoring. She accepted my explanation of the
ruling and claimed she learned a valued lesson.

As you can see if I had put all this into one post, most of you would have
given up on it. Sorry. And I did not actually eject the coach, the game was
over. Just told her that if this had occurred during the first 7 innings, she
would have been ejected for Behavior not in accordance with fair play.

Hope this helps the confussion.

glen

[Roger Greene]

Glenn,
I'm afraid that I have to agree with those that said return the runner to 3rd if your partner called time.

There is a case play in either the Fed BB or SB book that give an example of an umpire declaring "time" without justification just before a runner scores. The ruling is that even though time should not have been declared by the umpire, that all runners must return to the last base touched.

I understand your thoughts, and ruling, but it is just not supported.

Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

Roger, and others.

Thanks. That is why I posted it here and on other boards.
Wanted to get answers and opinions. At the time, I felt
very strongly the offensive had a play on and then WHAM,
there appears the coacher. I did advise my partner of his
error and that we would talk after the game. I took the
action at the time I thought was necessary to handle the
situtation.

Thanks all.


glen

[Del-Blue]

Glen,

I can understand why you did what you did. I still have to stick with my response on the other board. Don't worry about it, that is why we have these discussions, when we do something we are not sure about. We are all here to learn, and discuss different situations.

Bob

[SamNVa]

Hey Folks,

Please consider this.

Unfortunately, the ASA and FED rulebooks differ silghtly on the wording, but if you will allow me to appeal to the FED wording for guidance in this rather unusual situation:

OBSTRUCTION is an act by a defensive team member ... that impedes the progress of a runner who is legally running the bases ...

It certainly sounds as if the defensive coach impeded R1's attempt to run the bases. Now as with any other obstruction call, the umpire is allowed to award any bases necessary in order to nullify the act of obstruction which could include, but not necessarily require, an award of home to R1.

JMO,
SamC

[Skahtboi]

Sam:

What I am seeing here is that the PU was in fact the one that actually impeded play. As has been pointed out, he should have never called time. By doing so, it was his mistake. He killed the play. Therefore, the only correct thing to do is to place the runners back on the base they last legally touched.

I also agree with WMB's assessment that it should have been apparent that the coach would be fixing to call time in this situation, to a seasoned ump anyway. But, as Glen stated, this was a first year ump, which is probably why we are discussing this in the first place.

Scott

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by Skahtboi
Sam:

What I am seeing here is that the PU was in fact the one that actually impeded play. As has been pointed out, he should have never called time. By doing so, it was his mistake. He killed the play. Therefore, the only correct thing to do is to place the runners back on the base they last legally touched.

I also agree with WMB's assessment that it should have been apparent that the coach would be fixing to call time in this situation, to a seasoned ump anyway. But, as Glen stated, this was a first year ump, which is probably why we are discussing this in the first place.

Scott

Scott,

Negative, BU called time when he saw her[coach] aproaching, already
acorss the line, between R1 and 3rd base. The OBS had actually already
occurred since R1 and even her pitcher were completely confused. I did not
assume the coaches intentions.

Thanks for reply.

glen

[Buck912]

Glen, I pretty much have to agree with the majority on this one also. Once your partner called time-out (in error), he killed the ball and we have to live with it. Wheather the run would have scored or the runner being put out is all irrevlent after time was called. I also think that new umpires and well as new coaches need to understand that just because a coach comes out of the dugout saying "time", that's only a "request." The coaches can't call "time-out", only the good guys in blue can do that......I'm sure after your conversation with your new partner, he now understands that also. Thanks for your situation......

[umpdude]

I agree, if your partner called time, play is dead at that point and NOTHING HAPPENS after that until the next pitch. Case closed.

[CecilOne]

I guess we all agree, but I have a tangent question. In the original post, it says "R2 to 3rd". Ignoring the time out issue and assuming it was just obstruction of R1 by the coach, why 3rd? Am I misreading that R2 was on 1st?

[whiskers_ump]

CecilOne,

Game was in ITB started with R1 on 2B, she was successfully
bunted over by R2, whom reached on bad throw. Defensive
team walked B3, putting R2 on 2B and bases now full.

glen