When can a runner leave the base?

[WestMichiganBlue]

A runner on any base, less than 2 outs, ball hit in the air to the outfield. Runner has tagged and is ready to leave on the catch. But when?

Suppose that hit is sinking line drive, F9 snags the ball and tumbles to the ground and rolls. Does umpire call out as soon as ball is caught - and possibly change it later if fielder does not retain possesion? If Blue waits to make the call, when can the runner legally leave? On the catch? Or on the call?

Situation 2 - ball is bobbled by F9, maybe two or three times before finally securing it. Same questions?

Situation 3 - ball comes out of F9's glove and is caught by F8. Same questions?

WMB

[whiskers_ump]

Originally posted by WestMichiganBlue
A runner on any base, less than 2 outs, ball hit in the air to the outfield. Runner has tagged and is ready to leave on the catch. But when?

Suppose that hit is sinking line drive, F9 snags the ball and tumbles to the ground and rolls. Does umpire call out as soon as ball is caught - and possibly change it later if fielder does not retain possesion? If Blue waits to make the call, when can the runner legally leave? On the catch? Or on the call?

Situation 2 - ball is bobbled by F9, maybe two or three times before finally securing it. Same questions?

Situation 3 - ball comes out of F9's glove and is caught by F8. Same questions?

WMB

WMB,

Answer applies to all situtations:
Runners may advance when the fly ball [fair or foul]
first contacts the fielders glove/mitt. This prevents a fielder
from juggling the ball until s/he is in a better position
to throw and attempt to get the advancing runner[s].

glen

[Roger Greene]

Originally posted by whiskers_ump
[:
Runners may advance when the fly ball [fair or foul]
first contacts the fielders glove/mitt.

glen

[/B]

Or when the ball bounces off her head! (Couldn't resist Glenn.)

Seriously, Runners are released when the batted ball is touched by a fielder.

Roger Greene

[whiskers_ump]

Roger,

As usual, you are right. Does not have to be glove/mitt.
Could be head, arm, shoulder, etc.



However, in one sit. WMB did say snagged, another it came
out of the glove. First one might have gotten her in the
head, that is the reason she fell to ground.





glen

[Russell1027]

IMHO - the ASA rule book definition should be further clarified.

case in point - the definition of a catch is a legally caught ball which occurs when the fielder cathes a batted, pitched or thrown ball with the hand(s) or the glove.

Rule 8 section 4 states - runners are entitled to advance with liability to be put out - when a legally "caught" fly ball is first touched by any defensive player.

food for thought - if you have a bobbled ball in the outfield - the base runner(s) couldn't advance until the defender had possesion - i.e. legally caught ball.

We agree that when "first touch" happens, runners can advance.

We agree that the intent of the rule is to keep some juggling centerfielder from making his way from the fence all the way into secondbase thus keeping people from advancing (sideshow at some freakshow carnival) ..

we also agree that the runners can advance at the first touch of a illegally caught ball too.

Just making a comment that the ASA rule book should be changed to read - runners can advance upon contact of the ball with any part by a defender whether legally or illegally attempting to catch a fly ball.

my first post on the the forum... How did I do??

[Del-Blue]

Russell 1027,

Welcome to the forum!!!! You did good, but your request for the chang in the wording really isn't needed!!!!

Look at your rule 8 section 4 last part>>>> Fly ball is first touched by any defensive player

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Russell1027
IMHO - the ASA rule book definition should be further clarified.

case in point - the definition of a catch is a legally caught ball which occurs when the fielder cathes a batted, pitched or thrown ball with the hand(s) or the glove.

Rule 8 section 4 states - runners are entitled to advance with liability to be put out - when a legally "caught" fly ball is first touched by any defensive player.

food for thought - if you have a bobbled ball in the outfield - the base runner(s) couldn't advance until the defender had possesion - i.e. legally caught ball.

We agree that when "first touch" happens, runners can advance.

We agree that the intent of the rule is to keep some juggling centerfielder from making his way from the fence all the way into secondbase thus keeping people from advancing (sideshow at some freakshow carnival) ..

we also agree that the runners can advance at the first touch of a illegally caught ball too.

Just making a comment that the ASA rule book should be changed to read - runners can advance upon contact of the ball with any part by a defender whether legally or illegally attempting to catch a fly ball.

my first post on the the forum... How did I do??

Russell,

Welcome to the board.

ASA attempts to be as brief as possible. I think the wording is just fine. It specifically addresses the situation in which the play would come under scrutiny. After all, if the ball isn't caught, it doesn't make a bit of difference when it was first touched or not.

[Skahtboi]

I, too, would like to welcome you Russell. And I also feel that the wording is fine the way that it is. It is, to quote a past president, "perfectly clear."

[bluezebra]

"There is no rule book in the game of life."

It's called the Ten Commandments.

Bob

[CecilOne]

I tend to agree with R1027 about the clarity, but given 8-8-F, deleting 8-4-E would be even better and "be as brief as possible".

[Dakota]

Originally posted by CecilOne
I tend to agree with R1027 about the clarity, but given 8-8-F, deleting 8-4-E would be even better and "be as brief as possible".

First, on the trivial - in 2003 it is 8-7F .

Second, I have no problem with the clarity of these rules. ASA does include several sections that have somewhat redundant rules (runner is out, runner is not out, runner is entitled to advance without liability, runner is entitled to advance with liability), but the redundancy tends to add clarity, rather than add confusion.

After all, the briefest rule book I know of (USFA) is the poster child of confused rules and lack of clarity.

Whatever confusion exists in the rules concerning when the runner can advance on a fly ball is entirely self-constructed, IMO. 8-4E says the runner is entitled to advance as soon as a caught fly ball is first touched. The only confusion here would be a self-made issue of "what if it is not actually caught?" Or, "what about uncaught fly balls?" Well, pause and think about that question. You are asking "when can a runner advance on a grounder?"

The restriction on tagging up only exists if the fly ball is caught. Otherwise, it is a "grounder" and the runner can advance as soon as the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand (fast pitch) or as soon as the ball reaches the plate (slow pitch).

So, if the runner takes the gamble that the fly ball will not be caught, and it isn't caught, then he "may advance with liability!" And with a good jump, too.

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Dakota

Whatever confusion exists in the rules concerning when the runner can advance on a fly ball is entirely self-constructed, IMO. 8-4E says the runner is entitled to advance as soon as a caught fly ball is first touched. The only confusion here would be a self-made issue of "what if it is not actually caught?" Or, "what about uncaught fly balls?" Well, pause and think about that question. You are asking "when can a runner advance on a grounder?"

And that question is answered in three of the four paragraphs preceding 8.4.E.

The restriction on tagging up only exists if the fly ball is caught. Otherwise, it is a "grounder" and the runner can advance as soon as the pitch leaves the pitcher's hand (fast pitch) or as soon as the ball reaches the plate (slow pitch).

So, if the runner takes the gamble that the fly ball will not be caught, and it isn't caught, then he "may advance with liability!" And with a good jump, too.

A runner can leave the base whenever they please. Whether it is legal or not is what is addressed by the rules.

[CecilOne]

"If a woman has to choose between catching a fly ball and saving an infant's life, she will choose to save the infant's life without even considering if there is a runner on base." ... Dave Barry