black around plate (cont'd)

[Tap]

Mike,

Your post is below in quotes. I agree that the black should be treated as part of the plate if it is showing (for that matter, I think the plate should be larger for SP -- after all, bats are 34" long and the ball is coming in at about 8 mph).

My only question is why is this interpretation not in the ASA (1) rule book (rules or POE), (2) umpire's manual, or (3) case book? Many umpires are not able to attend clinics, at least those taught by people in the know. If that is the way ASA wants the black treated, then it should be disseminated in writing to all ASA umpires. After all, we are talking about home plate and every pitch delivered and some plays at the plate. Unless I am mistaken, the only people who have this in writing (other than those who read this web site) are people who teach clinics and have the clinc guide. Just my $0.02.

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[Mikes post: "For the purpose of all ASA rules, the black is to be considered part of the plate. If your clinicians are not teaching that, they are not using ASA's Clinic Guide or attending the right clinics.

From the 2002 guide:

Discuss the black safety rim (Emphasize that it is not part of the 17-inch width of the plate.)
1. If a pitch crosses over the black part, it is assumed the pitch also crossed over the white part.
2. If the catcher is touching the black part of the plate on a force out, it is considered to be also touching the white part.
3. If a runner touches the black part, it is considered they also touched the white part.
4. (Slow Pitch) If the ball touches the black part, it is considered that some part has also touched the white part.

Can't get any more specific than that."]

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by Tap
Mike,



My only question is why is this interpretation not in the ASA (1) rule book (rules or POE), (2) umpire's manual, or (3) case book? Many umpires are not able to attend clinics, at least those taught by people in the know. If that is the way ASA wants the black treated, then it should be disseminated in writing to all ASA umpires. After all, we are talking about home plate and every pitch delivered and some plays at the plate. Unless I am mistaken, the only people who have this in writing (other than those who read this web site) are people who teach clinics and have the clinc guide. Just my $0.02.

1. As stated before, all home bases are not manufactured equally as there is no standards set forth other than the dimensions of a piece of equipment. As I'm sure you have noticed, unlike other sport's rules books, ASA tries not to be scenario specific. They believe this makes it easier for the umpire to learn, remember and apply the rules.

2 & 3. Ball, strike, hit the plate or did not hit the plate are judgment calls. The Umpire's Manual is based mainly on mechanics and the Case Book is based on rules. No publication can direct judgment.

An ASA umpire should not begin the season without attending an ASA clinic. Associations all have organizational steps from the UIC at the Regional/State/Metro area on down to the local ASA affiliated association's UIC/Rules Interpreter/or whatever you call the individual responsible for training. I cannot speak for how other areas set up their clinics, but if an umpire cannot get to a clinic, it is his/her responsibility to discover what they have missed. If a clinic is not available, it is the UIC's responsibility to make changes and interpretations available to whatever umpire desires them.

OTOH, there are some folks who prefer to teach their beliefs as opposed to the rules. I've attended such clinics and believe those clinicians are doing a disservice to the umpires they are instructing. You see the results in some of the posts here involving the Good Old Boys telling umpires to not call this rule or that rule in certain leagues. Like ballplayers, an umpire does something in a certain manner for so long, it becomes a hard-to-break habit which may betray the umpire when they move on to a higher level of umpiring.

I am fortunate to be the UIC for a small state. There are three counties and I schedule a State Clinic in each. The local associations actually host these clinics ON THE NIGHTS THEY CHOSE, so there should be minimal problems for an umpire to attend. They are all published in advance to give umpires with a scheduling problem the opportunity to attend another in-state clinic or a recognized clinic with regional ties (i.e. Metro Washington DC or PA ASA in State College). All state clinics are free an open to anyone who chooses to attend. If a Delaware ASA umpire fails to attend a clinic, it is usually of their own doing.

No matter how anyone feels about ASA, the one thing for which they cannot be faulted is it's training program. There is no doubt that it may take a bit of dedication and cause for an umpire to make a concerted effort to attain it, but the clinics and training are out there for the taking.

BTW, the clinic guide flip chart is available for anyone who would like to order it from ASA at the URL below.

http://www.usasoftball.org/shop.asp?...=5&pid=BKS~U12

[Tap]

Thanks, Mike. I'll be buying the 2003 insert to the case book and I'll also get the clinic guide. I will say that ASA's products are quite reasonably priced at $10 and $15 for many of them (I may even buy some of the videos).

I agree that all umpires should be able to attend clinics or at least determine what they missed if they are unable or otherwise do not attend.

[WestMichBlue]

If I understand you correctly, you are stating that ASA rules do not define the black as being part of the "plate" but clinicians have a guide book that instructs them to teach umpires to consider the black as part of the plate.

You say that it has to be this way because the rulebook can not define something that is not manufactured uniformly. But the rulebook does say something; that the "plate" is white and is 17" wide. I suspect that 99.X% of the plates manufactured in this world meet that spec within a very small tolerance. But the black is not spec'd therefore the manufacturer can create his own design. The block can be vary in size, therefore the black will vary in width. The angle of the bevel can vary thus more or less of the black will be showing when installed. The condition and shape and texture of the ground can vary thus the amount of the black that shows can vary.

IF - the white is consistent but the black is variable - and you are going to include the black in your strike zone, then you have a variable strike zone from field to field. Conversely, calling the white does provide a consistent strike zone from field to field.

Question: would you take this interpretation to the FED game? Is there a FED equivalent to the ASA Guide book? Admittedly, FED mechanics do suggest lowering and widening the strike zone from the Rule prescribed zone. But I don't see this as calling the Black; I see it as a dimension off the plate (1", 2", whatever your choice) - that is - off the white.

WMB

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally posted by WestMichBlue
If I understand you correctly, you are stating that ASA rules do not define the black as being part of the "plate" but clinicians have a guide book that instructs them to teach umpires to consider the black as part of the plate.

You say that it has to be this way because the rulebook can not define something that is not manufactured uniformly. But the rulebook does say something; that the "plate" is white and is 17" wide. I suspect that 99.X% of the plates manufactured in this world meet that spec within a very small tolerance. But the black is not spec'd therefore the manufacturer can create his own design. The block can be vary in size, therefore the black will vary in width. The angle of the bevel can vary thus more or less of the black will be showing when installed. The condition and shape and texture of the ground can vary thus the amount of the black that shows can vary.

IF - the white is consistent but the black is variable - and you are going to include the black in your strike zone, then you have a variable strike zone from field to field. Conversely, calling the white does provide a consistent strike zone from field to field.

Question: would you take this interpretation to the FED game? Is there a FED equivalent to the ASA Guide book? Admittedly, FED mechanics do suggest lowering and widening the strike zone from the Rule prescribed zone. But I don't see this as calling the Black; I see it as a dimension off the plate (1", 2", whatever your choice) - that is - off the white.

WMB

Don't know, don't really care, about the Fed as most of this comes from the SP game.

Let's step back from the written word for a moment. Yes, the safety rim is the variable compared to the white though I have seen plates with a white safety rim.

It is nearly impossible to be sure a pitched ball which struck the edge of the plate hit the plate or the safety rim. Unless the plate has an unusually wide safety rim the odds are the ball hit the plate. Since anyone who wants to can argue the pitch hit the plate or not and it is basically a no win situation for the official, ASA has made it simple for all and basically stated that if the pitched ball which the batter had not offered, hits any part of the article servicing as a home base, it shall be ruled dead (sp) and called a ball.

As a matter of consistancy, if the safety rim is going to be considered part of the plate for one purpose, it should be considered part of the plate for the purpose of all ASA rules.

Personally, I don't see the problem or the big deal.

[whiskers_ump]

Mike,

Thanks for the URL for ordering. Steve had given it to me once,
but I lost it. Ordered the Clinic Guide, interference and
obstruction book and the CD on 2 & 3 Mechanics.


glen