Obstruction - Rounding the bag

[ACES Coach]

Runner at first. Ground ball (bunt). Out at first. R1 rounds bag a 2nd with no intention or opportunity to take 3rd. Contact is made with shortstop on 3rd base side of second base. Runner retreats back to 2nd. There is no throw or play. Base umpire does not rule obstruction.

While ball is still live, 3rd base coach tells runner to come over to 3rd base because of obstruction. Runner leaves second and starts strolling towards 3rd. Defense tags her out easily. Offensive coach protests that there was obstruction and that he thought the ump had extended his arm signalling obstruction. Umpire states that he was not signalling obstruction.

Coach and umpire defer to HP Umpire.

Result - Runner is awarded third. Was this the right call?

[MD Longhorn]

NO!

Coaches don't award bases, umpires do. Even if an umpire DID have an arm up, it's not an automatic award, in this case, it was likely only protection.

You don't mention what's going on with the ball when the runner returns. If the ball was in the circle, the runner returned to 2nd and then left when the coach told her to, we have an out - no need to play on her. If not, we merely have a live ball.

IF one of the umpires had obstruction on the shortstop (and it could be PU - both umpires can call this), at most the runner would be protected and put back on 2nd (based on your description of the play, obviously). But if that were the case, PU needed to make the call upon the tag, not after discussion.

The only other thing here might be if the BU was a rookie - and when conferring with PU told him what he saw - and it WAS obstruction, he just didn't know what to do with it. Even in that case, the award of 3rd sounds way wrong.

[Dakota]

From your description, it was obstruction, but the proper base award would be 2B (unless the rules you were playing under require a minimum of 1 base award for OBS). But, of course, I'm only going by your description, and the base award is umpire judgment.

The BU should have signaled OBS even if the runner did not appear to be going anywhere. That would have prevented SOME of the drama, at least.

[ACES Coach]

Neither umpire would be considered a rookie. Ball was still live, in the hands of the first baseman. The runner went backed to second and was called to third by her coach. As soon as the runner started towards 3rd, she threw the ball to 3rd and runner was tagged out.

[Dakota]

What rule set?

[ACES Coach]

CASA - Canadian

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by ACES Coach

Neither umpire would be considered a rookie. Ball was still live, in the hands of the first baseman. The runner went backed to second and was called to third by her coach. As soon as the runner started towards 3rd, she threw the ball to 3rd and runner was tagged out.

Then sounds like you have OBS between 2nd and 3rd, so she's protected between those bases - when tagged, since the award was not likely 3rd, she probably belongs on 2nd.

That said, I'm basing this on the softball rulesets I know. I believe there's at least 1 baseball set that the award would be 3rd - and I don't know CASA's nuances - so 3rd COULD have been right in their code.

[JefferMC]

Originally Posted by Dakota

The BU should have signaled OBS even if the runner did not appear to be going anywhere. That would have prevented SOME of the drama, at least.

I'm picking nits here, maybe, but did you mean to say that the BU should have signaled a Delayed Dead Ball?

[Dakota]

Originally Posted by JefferMC

I'm picking nits here, maybe, but did you mean to say that the BU should have signaled a Delayed Dead Ball?

Bite me.

[vcblue]

The true debate on this is does the PU call obstruction are does the PU just mentally note the obstruction and then if asked by the BU give the information. (Based on OP the runner should have been placed at 2nd).

We all know the book says either blue can make the call. However, I know a few blues (one that is pretty high up in ASA, has worked the Olympics and Pan Am games) that would tell you this is the BU call and the PU should just note and help if asked.

Let the debate begin

[MD Longhorn]

This may vary by region. I have a partner I work with a lot who is almost always in synch with me. He calls it synchronized obstruction - our arms go up simultaneously 90% of the time. (Many of the rest are due to multiple runners and separate responsibilities). No one I work with in this league would expect PU to not call an OBS that BU passed on.

In the OP - where you have contact, I don't care where I'm working, I'm signalling that one, even if it pisses off partner.

[tcannizzo]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This may vary by region. I have a partner I work with a lot who is almost always in synch with me. He calls it synchronized obstruction - our arms go up simultaneously 90% of the time. (Many of the rest are due to multiple runners and separate responsibilities). No one I work with in this league would expect PU to not call an OBS that BU passed on.

In the OP - where you have contact, I don't care where I'm working, I'm signalling that one, even if it pisses off partner.

Please don't call it Synchronized Umpiring with music and all...
We don't go for that around here.

[7in60]

Originally Posted by ACES Coach

Result - Runner is awarded third. Was this the right call?

Only if there was obstruction AND the umpire felt the runner would have reached third had the obstruction not occurred.

So, no. I'd have rung this runner up and had a chat with the coach about letting the umpires make the calls.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

This may vary by region. I have a partner I work with a lot who is almost always in synch with me. He calls it synchronized obstruction - our arms go up simultaneously 90% of the time. (Many of the rest are due to multiple runners and separate responsibilities). No one I work with in this league would expect PU to not call an OBS that BU passed on.

In the OP - where you have contact, I don't care where I'm working, I'm signalling that one, even if it pisses off partner.

Mike...not quite sure that I'm understanding what you're saying here. The way I'm reading it, the BU chooses to pass on (as opposed to not having seen) an OBS, but if the PU sees it differently he can call OBS?

[tcannizzo]

Yeah, I'd like to know what means "passed on"?