Obstruction - Rounding the bag

[HugoTafurst]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Yeah, I'd like to know what means "passed on"?

"Synchronized Umpires", "Passed on"

You are on FIRE, man!!!

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by KJUmp

Mike...not quite sure that I'm understanding what you're saying here. The way I'm reading it, the BU chooses to pass on (as opposed to not having seen) an OBS, but if the PU sees it differently he can call OBS?

How would an umpire, on the field during live action, have any idea whether the BU "chose to pass on" or simply "did not see" the obstruction.

You see it you call it. I grant that as PU and 60-90 feet away, the OBS needs to be a little more obvious to be called - but if you see OBS - whether PU or BU, you call it.

Like I said, I suppose this may be regional ... I would never take umbrage at a partner PU that called an OBS on the bases. OBS just takes an instant, and it is usually away from the play - there are a huge number of reasons a BU could miss an OBS without doing anything wrong.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by tcannizzo

Yeah, I'd like to know what means "passed on"?

I really just mean didn't call. Probably a bad choice of words on my part, as it implies he SAW it and didn't call it --- which shouldn't happen.

[KJUmp]

Originally Posted by mbcrowder

How would an umpire, on the field during live action, have any idea whether the BU "chose to pass on" or simply "did not see" the obstruction.

You see it you call it. I grant that as PU and 60-90 feet away, the OBS needs to be a little more obvious to be called - but if you see OBS - whether PU or BU, you call it.

Like I said, I suppose this may be regional ... I would never take umbrage at a partner PU that called an OBS on the bases. OBS just takes an instant, and it is usually away from the play - there are a huge number of reasons a BU could miss an OBS without doing anything wrong.

Clears up my question (along with your other reply) as to what you were saying.
'Passed on" (a phrase used often by basketball refs when discussing plays) was a bad choice of words on my part.
No disagreement that a BU can miss an OBS without having done anything wrong.
What piqued my curiosity when I read your post had more to do with something that happened to me earlier this season.
Two man. I'm BU 2 outs R1 on 1st.
Ground ball to F4, in quick order I have R1 jumping over the ball as F4 is ranging to her right to try to backhand it, the ball is just by F4's out stretched glove hand as R1 comes down on her as she completes her jump over the grounder, they get tangled up. I'm processing all this (do I have INT? or do I have nothing?) when PU, (who is inside the diamond between the circle and the 1st baseline about even with the pitchers plate) calls R1 out for INT.
Now maybe I was too slow in determining what I had on the play, too slow in giving a safe signal if I had nothing, or a dead ball signal for iNT, but he decided he saw something and I didn't and he was going to make call.
Yes any ump can call INT or OBS, I just felt that the call was mine. This was not a case my not being in position to see what was happening, I was looking right at it and the PU just "jumped the call".

[Dakota]

reported

[justcallmeblue]

Originally Posted by ACES Coach

Runner at first. Ground ball (bunt). Out at first. R1 rounds bag a 2nd with no intention or opportunity to take 3rd. Contact is made with shortstop on 3rd base side of second base. Runner retreats back to 2nd. There is no throw or play. Base umpire does not rule obstruction.

Here is where I have an issue. . .There is an OBS, I am protecting them between the bases. . she RETREATS back to 2nd. . .TO ME that means she is ON second. . so now I OBS is off! When she leaves the base upon the coaches urging. . .she is fair game. . .if there is a play on her and she is out, she's OUT

[IRISHMAFIA]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Here is where I have an issue. . .There is an OBS, I am protecting them between the bases. . she RETREATS back to 2nd. . .TO ME that means she is ON second. . so now I OBS is off! When she leaves the base upon the coaches urging. . .she is fair game. . .if there is a play on her and she is out, she's OUT

Speaking ASA

No, you cannot make that call unless there was a subsequent play on another runner.

[CecilOne]

two (today) reported

[CecilOne]

Originally Posted by IRISHMAFIA

Speaking ASA

No, you cannot make that call unless there was a subsequent play on another runner.

Which means the runner can NOT be out between 2nd and 3rd, until the next pitch. Hence, the coach had nothing to lose having the runner try to advance.

[MD Longhorn]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Here is where I have an issue. . .There is an OBS, I am protecting them between the bases. . she RETREATS back to 2nd. . .TO ME that means she is ON second. . so now I OBS is off! When she leaves the base upon the coaches urging. . .she is fair game. . .if there is a play on her and she is out, she's OUT

I will never understand why otherwise good umpires insist on inventing rules. The ASA ruleset works very well on it's own. If you call that in your local league, your girls are at a disadvantage when they move on, in that they will believe your invented rule is correct and fail to attempt to take advantage when they could. (Call that in tourney, and you might as well not come back).

[AtlUmpSteve]

Originally Posted by justcallmeblue

Here is where I have an issue. . .There is an OBS, I am protecting them between the bases. . she RETREATS back to 2nd. . .TO ME that means she is ON second. . so now I OBS is off! When she leaves the base upon the coaches urging. . .she is fair game. . .if there is a play on her and she is out, she's OUT

As stated in other ways by others, that simply isn't the rule, in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, or anywhere that I am aware of. Protection between the two bases remains until one of the following: 1) ALL PLAY is ended, meaning ball back in pitcher possession in the circle and all runners stopped on a base, or 2) obstructed runner is apparently put out, resulting in dead ball and protected base is awarded, 3) obstructed runner violates another of the specified running rules, or 4) after returning to the prior base, a play is made on ANOTHER runner, and THEN obstructed runner attempts to advance again, all during the same live play sequence.

Your version just isn't what the rules provide. Not a unique thought, just not correct.

[azbigdawg]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As stated in other ways by others, that simply isn't the rule, in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, or anywhere that I am aware of. Protection between the two bases remains until one of the following: 1) ALL PLAY is ended, meaning ball back in pitcher possession in the circle and all runners stopped on a base, or 2) obstructed runner is apparently put out, resulting in dead ball and protected base is awarded, 3) obstructed runner violates another of the specified running rules, or 4) after returning to the prior base, a play is made on ANOTHER runner, and THEN obstructed runner attempts to advance again, all during the same live play sequence.

Your version just isn't what the rules provide. Not a unique thought, just not correct.

It's not a particularly tough rule...I always wonder why people twist it, bend it, or try to make it harder than it is.

[Dakota]

SPAM reported

[youngump]

Originally Posted by AtlUmpSteve

As stated in other ways by others, that simply isn't the rule, in ASA, NFHS, NCAA, or anywhere that I am aware of. Protection between the two bases remains until one of the following: 1) ALL PLAY is ended, meaning ball back in pitcher possession in the circle and all runners stopped on a base, or 2) obstructed runner is apparently put out, resulting in dead ball and protected base is awarded, 3) obstructed runner violates another of the specified running rules, or 4) after returning to the prior base, a play is made on ANOTHER runner, and THEN obstructed runner attempts to advance again, all during the same live play sequence.

Your version just isn't what the rules provide. Not a unique thought, just not correct.

To be very clear, for #4 in the mentioned play the runner could be put out after returning to the prior base because that's the base she would have reached without the obstruction. If she would have gotten third, she'd still be protected even after returning to second and a subsequent play to that.

[Dakota]

reported